Self defence situatio

[CB Jones]

truth to the "red-headed temper" stereotype?

Gingers are soulless though....that’s a fact.

Disclaimer: I am part ginger

 

[JowGaWolf]

Very few people, comparatively, who live in the U.S. and actually carry a gun think that the only answer is always carry a gun. I know that this is the stereotype but that's all it is.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I don't think of it as a stereotype as much as it's the mindset that is being pushed in the U.S. When I think of stereotypes I think of it as an incorrect understanding of someone or something. In the case of guns, this mindset is actually being pushed for the purpose of getting people to believe that having a gun is the only solution and it's this reason why I don't think of it as a stereotype.

 

[pdg]

just human nature, not representative of actual evidence or logic

I never said it was logical, just that initially it had a basis which was confirmed by whatever means.

Typically it’s started by someone against that group in an attempt to discredit them though. Hence why it’s sily to put much weight in stereotypes.

Gun owners aren’t some crazy wackos waving around pistols at the drop of a hat....that is just how people who oppose gun ownership want to portray them.

There's very few stereotypes I put any weight behind at all (pretty much only the ones about gingers and essex girls )

I shoot, and I think everyone should have some grounding in what a gun is and what it does - that doesn't necessarily make me any more (or less) 'wacko' than the cop who carries a gun for work.

 

[pdg]

I don't think of it as a stereotype as much as it's the mindset that is being pushed in the U.S. When I think of stereotypes I think of it as an incorrect understanding of someone or something. In the case of guns, this mindset is actually being pushed for the purpose of getting people to believe that having a gun is the only solution and it's this reason why I don't think of it as a stereotype.

It can also be a matter of perspective.

In the UK, we generally see the media reports of Americans saying having a gun will solve all the issues - so it becomes a reinforced stereotype.

Having no way to verify whether that's actually a widely held view or simply a widely publicised view doesn't help.


In the same way, there's the stereotype that Americans are generally fat, dressed in 80s pattern track suits, loud and gun obsessed. Because it's what is seen.

I used to work in a petrol (gas) station fairly near a tourist attraction, I remember quite a few that perfectly fit that description.

Stereotype reinforced.

The fact that I probably served hundreds of perfectly normal Americans who just didn't stand out is by-the-by, because I don't remember them.

 

[CB Jones]

I don't think of it as a stereotype as much as it's the mindset that is being pushed in the U.S. When I think of stereotypes I think of it as an incorrect understanding of someone or something. In the case of guns, this mindset is actually being pushed for the purpose of getting people to believe that having a gun is the only solution and it's this reason why I don't think of it as a stereotype.

Who is pushing the mindset that you need to have a gun for when someone grabs you by the wrist?

Who is claiming that is the only solution?

 

[lklawson]

I don't think of it as a stereotype as much as it's the mindset that is being pushed in the U.S. When I think of stereotypes I think of it as an incorrect understanding of someone or something. In the case of guns, this mindset is actually being pushed for the purpose of getting people to believe that having a gun is the only solution and it's this reason why I don't think of it as a stereotype.

No, it really isn't. All of the available online instruction and every instructor is teaching that the firearm is a Deadly Force option and ONLY legally applicable and morally justified when faced with deadly force or serious bodily harm.

The idea that people carrying guns in the U.S. think that "guns are the only option" is a myth.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[JowGaWolf]

In the UK, we generally see the media reports of Americans saying having a gun will solve all the issues - so it becomes a reinforced stereotype.

Stereo type is what you believe. It's becomes different when a certain mindset is pushed. For example, there is no organized push to "there's the stereotype that Americans are generally fat, dressed in 80s pattern track suits, loud and gun obsessed. Because it's what is seen." You don't have spokes people pushing this narrative. Gun Use and Gun Ownership is actually pushed on the national political scene in the U.S. The last time I checked there wasn't an organization that pushes the mindset of Generally fat, dressed in 80's pattern track suit wearing Americans.

Once a stereotyped group starts pushing a narrative, it no longer becomes a stereotype. It doesn't mean that what they are pushing is true in general, it just means that it's no longer a stereotype. The intentional push of a mindset , belief of an organizations and some of it's members, is in itself verification of that belief. It's no longer what I believe, but what the organization pushes and what the organization states they believe.

Who is pushing the mindset that you need to have a gun for when someone grabs you by the wrist?

That's a specific and very few people push a specific. The mindset that someone will most likely push is. "What do you need to protect yourself from an attacker?" You were attacked so you would fit in this category. Martial artist push the narrative of martial arts skills, Self-defense instructors push the narrative of self-defense skills, be it unarmed or armed defense. Employeers have a different approach to this so they push the solution from the mindset of a corporation or business. For example, a business or corporation are going to tell the employees not to fight back, but to give to the demands of the attacker.

No one carries a concealed gun with the mindset that paper targets will suddenly attack them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

All of the available online instruction and every instructor is teaching that the firearm is a Deadly Force option and ONLY legally applicable and morally justified when faced with deadly force or serious bodily harm.

Not everyone takes these classes, just like everyone who gets into a fight don't take a self-defense class.

 

[lklawson]

Not everyone takes these classes, just like everyone who gets into a fight don't take a self-defense class.

So what you're saying is that your stereotype is based on your own assumptions about what does and does not happen instead of any actual fact or examples.

Again, the stereotype is a myth. People who carry guns in the U.S. do not have a "mindset" that the gun is the only option. Even people who are "untrained" don't believe this. No one does, because it is false on the face of it.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[CB Jones]

The mindset that someone will most likely push is. "What do you need to protect yourself from an attacker?" You were attacked so you would fit in this category.

You use what you need based on the specifics of the attack....whether that is verbal judo, hands on fighting, or lethal force......or perhaps all 3

Gun carriers push having all your options available instead of just some of them.

 

[pdg]

Stereo type is what you believe

Whether I choose to believe a stereotype or not doesn't qualify it as a stereotype nor disqualify it from that label.

I happen to have it on excellent authority that not all Americans are overweight, and that other types of clothing are sold in great numbers.

So, I don't believe it, but it's still a stereotype.

Just like the stereotype that all Australians drink fosters and wear those hats with the corks hanging off them.

My school french teacher was Australian, and I never once saw her hat nor her tinny...

It's still a stereotype though.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So what you're saying is that your stereotype is based on your own assumptions about what does and does not happen instead of any actual fact or examples.

What I'm saying is that stereotypes are no longer stereotypes, once it's pushed through organized efforts. Once an organization starts pushing the idea or belief becomes a message. It doesn't matter if the message is true or false. Because it's the message the organization want others to believe.

People who carry guns in the U.S. do not have a "mindset" that the gun is the only option.

This is not a true statement. So you can tell me that 100% of the people who carry guns in the U.S. believes this?

Gun carriers push having all your options available instead of just some of them.

Not all of them think this, which is why we have gun related crimes and killers.

I happen to have it on excellent authority that not all Americans are overweight, and that other types of clothing are sold in great numbers.

I happen to have it on excellent authority that many Americans are overweight,
This is true and not a stereotype. The only word I changed was All to Many.
Here are the stats:
Source: Overweight & Obesity Statistics | NIDDK
Fast Facts
According to data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES), 2013–20142,3,4,5

• More than 1 in 3 adults were considered to be overweight.
• More than 2 in 3 adults were considered to be overweight or have obesity.
• More than 1 in 3 adults were considered to have obesity.
• About 1 in 13 adults were considered to have extreme obesity.
• About 1 in 6 children and adolescents ages 2 to 19 were considered to have obesity.

Does this mean that there aren't Americans who are fit and not overweight. Nope. But my statement never make that claim. The only thing that would make your statement a stereotype is the use of ALL.

The only thing that would turn your stereotype into a Message. Is if you created an organization that pushed and marketed to the public that "I happen to have it on excellent authority that not all Americans are overweight, and that other types of clothing are sold in great numbers."

 

[pdg]

The only thing that would turn your stereotype into a Message. Is if you created an organization that pushed and marketed to the public that "I happen to have it on excellent authority that not all Americans are overweight, and that other types of clothing are sold in great numbers".

But, that statement isn't a stereotype whether it's pushed as a message or not.

It's simply a fact, just like saying "some Americans are fat" and like saying "some Brits wear a monocle". Some are and some do. Fact, not stereotype.

What I'm saying is that stereotypes are no longer stereotypes, once it's pushed through organized efforts. Once an organization starts pushing the idea or belief becomes a message. It doesn't matter if the message is true or false. Because it's the message the organization want others to believe.

I somewhat agree with that, with caveats.

Something can start as a stereotype and become a message.

But, it can remain a stereotype at the same time too.

Using the same scenario, I can cite the stereotype "generally, Americans think carrying a gun is the best form of self defence". I can then use the message that an organisation promotes that idea to support that stereotype.

Note that it's still a stereotype even though it didn't use "all", and it's not changed by a message or mindset being pushed.

However, if such a campaign is successful and it convinces the majority of Americans to believe it, the stereotype of 'generally' ceases to be a stereotype and becomes a fact.

Not until that point though.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I happen to have it on excellent authority that many Americans are overweight,
This is true and not a stereotype.

The stereotype is that Americans are fat (not that some Americans are fat). That's how stereotypes work - they are gross overgeneralizations, usually (not in this case) based on a broad overgeneralization of usually negative traits.

 

[pdg]

The stereotype is that Americans are fat (not that some Americans are fat). That's how stereotypes work - they are gross overgeneralizations, usually (not in this case) based on a broad overgeneralization of usually negative traits.

Sweeping generalisations are by far the best and most entertaining kind

 

[CB Jones]

Not all of them think this, which is why we have gun related crimes and killers.

What organization of criminals and killers is pushing the message that guns are the solution to all problems?

The American Den Of Thieves Society?

The Killer and Murders Guild?

 

[drop bear]

Very few people, comparatively, who live in the U.S. and actually carry a gun think that the only answer is always carry a gun. I know that this is the stereotype but that's all it is.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Yet the phase God created man and Colt made them equal gets used enough.

Talking to American gun owners they want their cake and eat it too.

So I will hear it is only a tool when the reliance on guns to function is mentioned.

And the horror that I can't stop ninja's raping my children when I say I don't carry one.

And so will just flip from one end to the other depending on what they think makes them seem more reasonable at the time.

 

[pdg]

Yet the phase God created man and Colt made them equal gets used enough

Unfortunately, that's false on two counts

Skip the first one...

Give two people guns, one will be faster and better than the other - there's no equalisation.

 

[drop bear]

Unfortunately, that's false on two counts

Skip the first one...

Give two people guns, one will be faster and better than the other - there's no equalisation.

When you look at defensive gun and compare how much time is spent using it to feel good. And how much time is used to kill baby rapers.

You can get a gist of where the focus of gun carry is.

 

[pdg]

When you look at defensive gun and compare how much time is spent using it to feel good. And how much time is used to kill baby rapers.

You can get a gist of where the focus of gun carry is.

I think I can see what you mean.

It's like a security blanket?

But whatever the colt marketeers meant, it's never about equalisation, it's about gaining an advantage...