Scenario training...

[jks9199]

Yeah I have done those. My attitude is if I know i am going to go physical why the preamble.

Because how you get there can matter. One excellent training ever exercise (as ballen mentioned) is to gear up for a nonviolent solution. It's a way for students to see the contact great or marking cartridge stuff and go "PARTY TIME!". That sort of scenario forces them to actually think it through and keep to things that they can justify legally.

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[jks9199]

Because how you get there can matter. One excellent training ever exercise (as ballen mentioned) is to gear up for a nonviolent solution. It's a way for students to see the contact great or marking cartridge stuff and go "PARTY TIME!". That sort of scenario forces them to actually think it through and keep to things that they can justify legally.

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Just to elaborate... Had a call like that last week. Call was for a disorderly naked individual. I thought sure we'd be fighting... Guy complied immediately and with no fuss. No, I didn't use the Taser " just cuz" nor did I thump him. I cuffed him and assisted the medics.

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[drop bear]

Just to elaborate... Has a call like that last week. Call was for a disorderly naked individual. I thought sure we'd be fighting... Guy complied immediately and with no fuss. No, I didn't use the Taser " just cuz" nor did I think him. I cuffed him and assisted the medics.

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Yeah but a real life vs training difference. In real life you can talk someone down as they may be undecided as to what they want to do.
And probably goes 90 percent comply and 10 percent fight.

Very hard to reflect that in training as your partner is decided one way or the other. And I have never done combat scenarios that work on a 90 percent comply.

 

[ballen0351]

Yeah but a real life vs training difference. In real life you can talk someone down as they may be undecided as to what they want to do.
And probably goes 90 percent comply and 10 percent fight.

Very hard to reflect that in training as your partner is decided one way or the other. And I have never done combat scenarios that work on a 90 percent comply.

But you can. You give your roll players the option if the person taking the scenario does a good job of verbally controlling the situation it doesn't go physically.

 

[drop bear]

But you can. You give your roll players the option if the person taking the scenario does a good job of verbally controlling the situation it doesn't go physically.

No I always fight. He is just not good enough at talking me down.

 

[ballen0351]

No I always fight. He is just not good enough at talking me down.

Ok

 

[BrendonR]

Scenario training is for the elite, not the beginner. The beginner has no understanding of how to interpret the training for the scenario. Which is why in Krav Maga, when they start with scenario's it is a ineffective method. However, the Krav Maga self defense itself, is VERY effective.

 

[ballen0351]

Scenario training is for the elite, not the beginner. .

Thats not correct. We train the military and police recruits with this type of training

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

But you can. You give your roll players the option if the person taking the scenario does a good job of verbally controlling the situation it doesn't go physically.

This is very important in Scenario training. Verbal de-escalation techniques, movement allowing you to get away, etc. should all be a part of the scenarios. Some times a roll player will not attack and respond positively to good verbal de-escalation technique. Or the scenario was set up that they never would attack just argue. Another time, maybe not and they attack. This makes Scenario Based Training very hard to gage for a potential victim "roll player" and when done right gets their adrenaline going. Afterwards talk about each scenario and go through what was done right or wrong. What could be improved upon, etc. Scenario Based Training is very valuable when done right!

 

[jks9199]

Yeah but a real life vs training difference. In real life you can talk someone down as they may be undecided as to what they want to do.
And probably goes 90 percent comply and 10 percent fight.

Very hard to reflect that in training as your partner is decided one way or the other. And I have never done combat scenarios that work on a 90 percent comply.

No, it's not. That's the point I've been trying to make. PROPERLY designed and constructed training can have a range of outcomes. It's not just "OK, so you gotta fight this guy" or "talk this guy down."

 

[jks9199]

Scenario training is for the elite, not the beginner. The beginner has no understanding of how to interpret the training for the scenario. Which is why in Krav Maga, when they start with scenario's it is a ineffective method. However, the Krav Maga self defense itself, is VERY effective.

No. I can do scenario training with someone with no experience, or with students with decades of experience both doing and teaching. Some types of scenario training are indeed more effective once the students have some tools (verbal, physical, psychological, etc.) -- but scenarios can also be a very good way to wake up students to some of the realities of violence.

 

[jks9199]

No I always fight. He is just not good enough at talking me down.

Then you're a lousy role player. Role players are given guidelines. They have to work within them. (That's actually one of the weaknesses of scenario training -- but can be mitigated through planning and design.) Sometimes the guidelines are simple; sometimes they're extensive with lots of progression points where the student's decision and action can lead to various outcomes.

 

[ballen0351]

No, it's not. That's the point I've been trying to make. PROPERLY designed and constructed training can have a range of outcomes. It's not just "OK, so you gotta fight this guy" or "talk this guy down."

In my opinion if there isnt multiple possible outcomes for each scenario then its not scenario training its a preset drill with more acting then normal

 

[drop bear]

Then you're a lousy role player. Role players are given guidelines. They have to work within them. (That's yactually one of the weaknesses of scenario training -- but can be mitigated through planning and design.) Sometimes the guidelines are simple; sometimes they're extensive with lots of progression points where the student's decision and action can lead to various outcomes.

The issue is there while you can set guidelines there is no good hard and fast rule and you rely on somebodies interpretation. I think that aspect has to be really watched.

 

[ballen0351]

The issue is there while you can set guidelines there is no good hard and fast rule and you rely on somebodies interpretation.

But you have already stated your interpretation which is you always fight no matter what

 

[drop bear]

But you have already stated your interpretation which is you always fight no matter what

And relying on that breaks the scenario.

 

[ballen0351]

And relying on that breaks the scenario.

Which is why you were called a lousy roll player and prob a future inmate if you always resort back to violence

 

[drop bear]

Which is why you were called a lousy roll player and prob a future inmate if you always resort back to violence

Being called a lousy roll player when discussing martial arts training is a compliment.


Sometimes I even attack people wrong.

 

[ballen0351]

Being called a lousy roll player when discussing martial arts training is a compliment.

not when the topic is about the serious concept of Scenario Training.

Sometimes I even attack people wrong.

Actually I doubt you have ever attacked or been attacked in real like but keep telling yourself that

 

[jks9199]

Being called a lousy roll player when discussing martial arts training is a compliment.


Sometimes I even attack people wrong.

No, it's not. A good training partner, whether a scenario role player or partner in drills or even a sparring partner, doesn't just do their own thing and to hell with the training plan. They work with their partner in the context of the training so that both become better.

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