San Soo article in Inside Kung-Fu Magazine

[MaartenSFS]

Don't confuse the "ways" of people who have been forced to live under Communism with the natural proclivities of a "free" people.
Chinese in America are often "sharp" business-men/dealers, but I would not call them thieves. There are other nationalities that are far worse.

It tells me that is what the government THOUGHT they wanted.
Now, perhaps it is too late to "change back".

If you look long enough, you may find it yet.
The "wrong attitude" will pretty much guarantee not finding it.
You DO need to be cautious....

How old are you and how long have you trained?
In what?

First of all I should say that I was refering to Mainland Chinese. I've been living here for three years now and not in the tourist places or big cities (Though I have been there as well), and in both the North and South.

Chinese people have a lot of freedom because of a lack of enforcement of laws and too many people everywhere to notice things.

I agree with you that it is too late. It's quite sad really. A lot has been destroyed since I've been here. But not everything in China is a brainchild of the government. Chinese people are brainwashed into having none of their own opinions about anything by society, the media, their family, et cetera. And they are being influenced by Japanese fashion, through Korea, and by foreign corporations. And they are brainwashed yet again by their addiction to computer games. I could go on, but it would be pointless. I know it sounds bad, but what I have said is the truth and I stand by it. That said, not 100% are like this, but the vast majority are.

When I first came here I was anything but negative. Harsh experience has done that. I'm still looking, but becoming ever more doubtful...

 

[bakxierboxer]

First of all I should say that I was refering to Mainland Chinese. I've been living here for three years now and not in the tourist places or big cities (Though I have been there as well), and in both the North and South.

Mostly around what areas and/or cities?

Chinese people have a lot of freedom because of a lack of enforcement of laws and too many people everywhere to notice things.

That sounds "better than it might have been".

I agree with you that it is too late. It's quite sad really. A lot has been destroyed since I've been here. But not everything in China is a brainchild of the government. Chinese people are brainwashed into having none of their own opinions about anything by society, the media, their family, et cetera. And they are being influenced by Japanese fashion, through Korea, and by foreign corporations. And they are brainwashed yet again by their addiction to computer games. I could go on, but it would be pointless. I know it sounds bad, but what I have said is the truth and I stand by it. That said, not 100% are like this, but the vast majority are.

It often sounds like that in many areas of the world.... fortunately, it does't always "take".

When I first came here I was anything but negative. Harsh experience has done that. I'm still looking, but becoming ever more doubtful...

??? I hope you're wrong.... because I've given some thought to possibly moving there....

 

[MaartenSFS]

I can't even begin to tell you how disappointed I am about China. I came with high expectations. I can tell you from first hand experience that what was once grand is now gone. Whenever I go to a new city the first thing I do is look all over for the Gongfu. I've studied from many different schools since I've been here and quickly realised that they are all out for one (or two) of two things here: Money or face.

I officially studied, Taijiquan, Qinna (From three teachers), and Sanda, but tried much more. I even did Taekwondo and Kendo when there was nothing else and those sucked too! Of the three Qinna teachers one was the only good teacher in China. But he told me himself that his knowledge was very limited. There rest were all liars. Every single one of them. I especially hate the Sanda teacher who led me on for months.

Next week I'm almost certainly moving to Hainan, "The Hawaii of the Orient". I'm crossing my fingers. I've been to Guangzhou, Guilin, Shenzhen, Hongkong, Yangshuo, Liuzhou, Chongqing, Guiyang, Lanzhou, Sichuan, and Shanghai, along with some very remote places. I have scoured the mountain-top temples, isolated villages, urban metropolises, AND CHINESE search engines for anything resembling real TCMA with no luck. By real I mean those that are combat effective. I can only be comforted by the fact that I know more about CMA than 99% of Chinese themselves.

That said, there are good places in China if you can manage to keep yourself from becoming like them and you can get out of the normal expat rut and it may still be possible to re-construct some MA, like WMA was, for example. But until Chinese people try to develop their minds and stop concentrating on the bloody economy, it won't happen.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

...It's been proven that kickboxing/grappling can be applied to real combat. The same cannot be said of TCMA. For this I wait.

I'm not going to say it.

 

[kidswarrior]

I'm not going to say it.

Me neither. :ultracool But I will say that this thread began because of an article about a soldier in Iraq effectively using and teaching Kung Fu San Soo, which has to be considered TCMA (Jimmy didn't just make it up when he got to the U.S.), and which I believe is traceable six generations back from Jimmy. Other San Soo guys would be much better with the history than I am (QUI-GON, Sifu John, Lauren, and I know I'm forgetting many more).

 

[MaartenSFS]

As a general rule... Any MA that was created in America is hardly a TCMA. Especially one with such an ambiguous name and a founder called Jimmy. I suppose JKD is also a TCMA, then?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sansoo is not sanda/sanshou.

San Soo
http://www.answers.com/topic/san-soo-1

Sanda/Sanshou
http://www.answers.com/topic/sanshou

It's been proven that kickboxing/grappling can be applied to real combat. The same cannot be said of TCMA. For this I wait.

I don't know, I used Taiji pretty effectively (and way to much) in my security days and a hospital with a Mental health and detox unit

 

[Tames D]

As a general rule... Any MA that was created in America is hardly a TCMA. Especially one with such an ambiguous name and a founder called Jimmy. I suppose JKD is also a TCMA, then?

Maarten, There is no way I can express to you how wrong you are, and how out of line you are. If you want to continue with the negative comments, don't do it here.

 

[Grenadier]

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[MaartenSFS]

Sansoo is not sanda/sanshou.

San Soo
http://www.answers.com/topic/san-soo-1

Sanda/Sanshou
http://www.answers.com/topic/sanshou



I don't know, I used Taiji pretty effectively (and way to much) in my security days and a hospital with a Mental health and detox unit

My meaning by not proven to being effective comes from the fact that most TCMA practitioners do not compete in any fights (Not only MMA fights). And that many practitioners aren't even in good enough physical condition to walk quickly without having to catch their breath because their technique and/or Qi Cultivation Skillz are vastly superior. And I don't like MMA at all. It just looks the same after a while, so I'm not one of "those types".

You know, the best martial artists don't win fights because their technique is better, but because they are in great health. A healthy non-MAist could be better off than an unhealthy MAist.

 

[MaartenSFS]

Maarten, There is no way I can express to you how wrong you are, and how out of line you are. If you want to continue with the negative comments, don't do it here.

I think it's fine to disagree. Now I know what San Soo is, or isn't. But I expect you to be able to handle a little criticism. If you can't handle it, perhaps you are the one who is out of line. I have taken some tough criticism in my day for my unconventional thoughts and words. I took it like a man and, despite what others said or thought, continued on my own path in my own way. Anyways, I'll leave it at that. To each his own.

 

[Tames D]

I think it's fine to disagree. Now I know what San Soo is, or isn't. But I expect you to be able to handle a little criticism. If you can't handle it, perhaps you are the one who is out of line. I have taken some tough criticism in my day for my unconventional thoughts and words. I took it like a man and, despite what others said or thought, continued on my own path in my own way. Anyways, I'll leave it at that. To each his own.

I don't have a problem with criticism, but in this case you are criticising something that you know nothing about. I call that ignorance. You thought San Soo was a mis-spelling of Sanshou, showing me that you are not knowedgable about the subject. And your remarks about Jimmy Woo were out of line in my opinion, especially since you don't know anything about him or who he is.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

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[Xue Sheng]

My meaning by not proven to being effective comes from the fact that most TCMA practitioners do not compete in any fights (Not only MMA fights). And that many practitioners aren't even in good enough physical condition to walk quickly without having to catch their breath because their technique and/or Qi Cultivation Skillz are vastly superior. And I don't like MMA at all. It just looks the same after a while, so I'm not one of "those types".

You know, the best martial artists don't win fights because their technique is better, but because they are in great health. A healthy non-MAist could be better off than an unhealthy MAist.

Agreed many MMA\Sanda people train harder but you also have a big philosophical difference between TMA training and MMA/Sanda training today. TMA trains not to fight and MMA/Sanda trains to fight. Meaning the goal of most sports based or police military based training systems is to climb into a ring and fight or they full expect to be in a fight either in the street of a combat zone.

TMA, if trained like it should be or use to be is very effective. But in general, or at least my experience, is you are trained to only use it when absolutely necessary and if at all possible run away. A fight in the street is very serious and not to be taken lightly. Not that the other training takes it lightly, they take it incredibly seriously but they train to fight and defeat the other guy. And there is nothing wrong with that it is just different.

I guess bottom-line the views of fighting are different between MMA/Sanda and TMA.

 

[pete]

i cant place the origin of this, but once heard 'one does not rise to the occasion, but sinks to the level of his training'

if you don't train endurance, you'll tire. if you don't train your body, it will atrophy. if you don't train your mind, you'll grow complacent.

if you train to always fight, you'll be fighting everything. if you train to always run, you'll be forever running away from something.

its less a matter of what you train, but HOW you train...

pete

 

[MaartenSFS]

Agreed many MMA\Sanda people train harder but you also have a big philosophical difference between TMA training and MMA/Sanda training today. TMA trains not to fight and MMA/Sanda trains to fight. Meaning the goal of most sports based or police military based training systems is to climb into a ring and fight or they full expect to be in a fight either in the street of a combat zone.

TMA, if trained like it should be or used to be is very effective. But in general, or at least my experience, is you are trained to only use it when absolutely necessary and if at all possible run away. A fight in the street is very serious and not to be taken lightly. Not that the other training takes it lightly, they take it incredibly seriously but they train to fight and defeat the other guy. And there is nothing wrong with that it is just different.

I guess bottom-line the views of fighting are different between MMA/Sanda and TMA.

I completely agree. But, in my opinion, the MMA training method is more effective for learning how to fight (Nowadays), whilst the TCMA approach is more geared towards art. Again, in my opinion, the definition of art, in a martial context, is training a technique until it is the most efficient that it can be. My problem with MMA is that it lacks the imagination and creativity the Ancients had when they thought up all of the techniques that MMA practitioners deem useless. If it was all useless then the techniques would have been discarded long before now. The difference is that they knew what they were used for, whilst we can only guess. Just by playing around we can find many ways to lock someone or find sensitive areas. These are almost completely overlooked in MMA. And I hate boxing shorts. But incompetant TCMA practitioners continue to promote their arts as a martial dance...

i cant place the origin of this, but once heard 'one does not rise to the occasion, but sinks to the level of his training'

if you don't train endurance, you'll tire. if you don't train your body, it will atrophy. if you don't train your mind, you'll grow complacent.

if you train to always fight, you'll be fighting everything. if you train to always run, you'll be forever running away from something.

its less a matter of what you train, but HOW you train...

pete

Absolutely.

 

[MaartenSFS]

I don't have a problem with criticism, but in this case you are criticising something that you know nothing about. I call that ignorance. You thought San Soo was a mis-spelling of Sanshou, showing me that you are not knowedgable about the subject. And your remarks about Jimmy Woo were out of line in my opinion, especially since you don't know anything about him or who he is.

Now I know and you'll have to excuse me for not being able to associate a name like Jimmy Woo with an authentic TCMA style. That said it's still good that a soldier was able to use what he learned when it really counted. I wish I could say the same about the time I wasted studying Taekwondo all those years ago. =P

 

[Tez3]

Is there anywhere online we can read the artlicle at all? I've never seen the magazine in question and would love to read it. I'm very interested in learning more about the soldier's experience as would many in my club being soldiers themselves just back from Iraq.

I've never done any Chinese styles but am fascinated by all styles and arts. I have a friend who fights MMA and comes from a Chinese style background. You can Google him or look on Sherdog - Sami Berik.he's confident but a humble man. A very good advertisement for martial arts I think.

I've never considered learning anything let alone a martial art pointless, I think that would be very arrogant of me. In my life I've tried all sorts of things and learned a lot. Maybe a certain style or art isn't for you but it's hardly a waste of time learning it. At the very least you've learned it's not for you, it doesn't however make it a 'bad' art.

There is a trap for unwary martial artists, it's called pride. It's so tempting to think that the art we do is the best, the only one, the original. However there's nothing new under the sun and there's so much to learn from everyone else it is such a waste to argue over who's style is the best or most original. it's why I am posting on here, a Chinese site when my main styles are MMA and TSD. I want to learn more!

Qui -Gon I'm looking to you to help me here !:asian:

 

[Tames D]

Is there anywhere online we can read the artlicle at all? I've never seen the magazine in question and would love to read it. I'm very interested in learning more about the soldier's experience as would many in my club being soldiers themselves just back from Iraq.

I've never done any Chinese styles but am fascinated by all styles and arts. I have a friend who fights MMA and comes from a Chinese style background. You can Google him or look on Sherdog - Sami Berik.he's confident but a humble man. A very good advertisement for martial arts I think.

I've never considered learning anything let alone a martial art pointless, I think that would be very arrogant of me. In my life I've tried all sorts of things and learned a lot. Maybe a certain style or art isn't for you but it's hardly a waste of time learning it. At the very least you've learned it's not for you, it doesn't however make it a 'bad' art.

There is a trap for unwary martial artists, it's called pride. It's so tempting to think that the art we do is the best, the only one, the original. However there's nothing new under the sun and there's so much to learn from everyone else it is such a waste to argue over who's style is the best or most original. it's why I am posting on here, a Chinese site when my main styles are MMA and TSD. I want to learn more!

Qui -Gon I'm looking to you to help me here !:asian:

Tez3 -

I checked their website and couldn't find the article online. You may have better luck if you try. You may be able to contact the magazine for assistance.

 

[The Master]

A most interesting thread. It has raised some questions I think I'll ask in a new thread.

For this topic, it is good to know that one's training was effective in the real world. May he not have to ever test it again. :asian: