Safety Concern

[jks9199]

Ok here it is from the parent own words:

My son was being disrespectful toward the instructor and he gave him a push kick in the hogu and he feel to the floor, no-one was hurt but my concern is this child abruse or it this the norm in a dojaang.

Sorry I needed to get more info. the child was 10 years old and to me it is better ways to earn respect from a child. So know with new info. what is everyone commits.

For a ten year old... almost certainly inappropriate. I can think of two exceptions: young (like 15 or younger) black belt -- which I disagree with anyway!, or if the disrespect consisted of continuing to attack or fight after being told to stop.

But with older kids -- like mid to late teens -- sometimes it's the only way to get through to them. I had one of my students tell me the other day how well he remembers one time when I got very pissed off with his attitude, and gave him a forearm shot across his chest... It got the point across. In a way that words weren't. Note that it was controlled, and shocked, not hurt him.

 

[MBuzzy]

This is a BIG no no. I would call it assault honeslty.

 

[jks9199]

For a ten year old... almost certainly inappropriate. I can think of two exceptions: young (like 15 or younger) black belt -- which I disagree with anyway!, or if the disrespect consisted of continuing to attack or fight after being told to stop.

But with older kids -- like mid to late teens -- sometimes it's the only way to get through to them. I had one of my students tell me the other day how well he remembers one time when I got very pissed off with his attitude, and gave him a forearm shot across his chest... It got the point across. In a way that words weren't. Note that it was controlled, and shocked, not hurt him.

I just reread my post, and I want to clarify a couple of things.

I'll cut a very young instructor some slack working with a kid; an adult instructor should be working with him to correct this immediately. It's not a proper method of discipline, and yet one more reason why I'm opposed to youth black belts...

With regard to continuing to attack -- I'm picturing a case where the instructor simply used enough force to push the kid away, in lieu of literally decking him.

Older kids... Well, I've found that at certain ages, the balance of hormones with egos sometimes requires a physical shock to wake them up and kind of trigger a mental reset. It's a fine line... but it's there. Might be a guy thing...

 

[Deaf Smith]

If your instructor was a master (was he?) I cannot see him knocking down anyone except with purpose. One of the hallmarks of being a master is control. And striking hard enough to knock them down by 'accident', well very unlikely.

So now it turns out the child was disrespectful (but 10 years old!) Personaly I would have read him off in front of class and have him do push ups or something like that.

Now here in Texas the penal code protects teachers from criminal action if they give corporal punishment (but not civil lawsuites!) This includes martial arts instruction. Plus the student, or parent, usually signs a release which shields them from civil lawsuites unless there is gross negligence (say real blades were used in defense against a knife and someone was stabbed to death or maimed.)

So in reality, the 'master' could do what he did (at least in Texas) but I bet the parent would pull their child right out of that class!

Deaf

 

[IcemanSK]

As Kacey said, this was no accident. Doing this to a 10 year old is inexcusable. There are better & more effective was to correct that behavior. All that kicking the kid is show him that when you're bigger & stronger you use THAT to get "respect" rather than earning it.

 

[bluekey88]

Bottom line, based on the updated info (young intructor or master...doesn't matter)...it was wrong.

Furthermore, in the long run, that type of discipline simply doesn't work.

The kid was being disrespectful (a rather vague term...but I'll go with it). The consequence of such behavior was to get kicked. In the short run I'm sure the kid ceased his behavior. What he didn't get was what he SHOULD be doing. Furthermore, the take home message is not "don't be disrepectful" (since kicking a student outside of a sparring situation is hardly a respectful action) but rather "might makes right."

I'd say going forward, it is likely that this kid will learn that when he is bigger/stronger/in charge of smaller/weaker/younger folks that such interventions are appropriate.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Once again; in our litigious climb, this is foolish. Not enough info to go much further than that.

With a ten year old, I don't feel that this is the best rout for discipline. Not sure that I'd say its the best rout regardless of the student age, but in the case of a preteen student, I'd say this was a poor choice.

Of course one must also consider the accuracy of the account. The parent didn't post anything but the most vague of questions to begin. The follow up was almost equally vague. Disrespectful can mean anything from refusal to listen to trying to bite the instructor, at which point I wouldn't begrudge a swift kick to the hogu. Did the disrespect happen during sparring? Was it attempts to kick the partner in the groin after being told not to? Again, I'm not sure I'd begrudge the instructor if that were the case, though I wouldn't agree with him either.

We know that the student was indeed wearing the hogu and that the instructor didn't miss it. We know that the student hit his head, but not what he hit it on. Was it the mat, the wall or something else?

Not enough info still, but I stand by my original opinion that the instructor would have been better served to take a different approach.

Daniel