Safety Concern

[terryl965]

Here is the question:

My instructor kicked my son and my son fell backwards and hit his head. I know this was an accident, but I don't really know if this is how it is suppose to be.

Looking for some great converstation about the above question.

 

[terryl965]

Here is my own personal take, years ago it was adults for the main parts of class and all we ever said was yes sir and no sir and it was never given a second thought. In today world it is about positive teaching and any kind of act like that would result in charges from the state. I wish people would understand that a Martial Art is like any contact sport bumps and bruises will happen and sometime what people think they see may not be what they thought they saw. I know I may spare with under age students but coutine is always used and will be a part of the day to day grind.

 

[Kacey]

Here is the question:

My instructor kicked my son and my son fell backwards and hit his head. I know this was an accident, but I don't really know if this is how it is suppose to be.

I'm not quite sure what you're looking for here. Are you asking if your instructor should have not kicked your son? Should have caught him before his head hit the floor? Should have apologized afterward? Should have paid for any necessary medical bills? All of the above? None of the above?

 

[MBuzzy]

Also, was this as a part of routine sparring? It is a completely different question if it was sparring versus administrative. e.g. My Korean instructor slapped me on the back of the head when I screwed up...as my rank got higher, the hits got harder, eventually it was kicks....I trusted him, the guy has incredible control and it was usually just the two of us. But if he has caused injury - well, that's a different story than when he sent me across the room during sparring.

But even then - I know for a fact that he had the control to not knock me across the room during sparring.

 

[terryl965]

I'm not quite sure what you're looking for here. Are you asking if your instructor should have not kicked your son? Should have caught him before his head hit the floor? Should have apologized afterward? Should have paid for any necessary medical bills? All of the above? None of the above?

Kacey the question is taken from the website of USAT and is the way the parent ask it so I do not know what he is looking for. This was not my son but a parent of a diferent school all together.

 

[igillman]

The short answer is "that is going to happen from time to time but it should not be a regular occurance". TKD is a contact sport/art and these things are going to happen. If the instructor keeps on knocking the kid down then a word with the instructor might be in order.

 

[IcemanSK]

Here is the question:

My instructor kicked my son and my son fell backwards and hit his head. I know this was an accident, but I don't really know if this is how it is suppose to be.

Looking for some great converstation about the above question.

It would really depend on the context of the "accidental kick." The parent on the USAT message board doesn't leave us much to go on. My first thought was, if the parent knows it's an accident, why are they bothered? Makes me think the parent either doesn't have faith in the instructor's abilities, or perhaps they think it wasn't an accident.

Recently, I had a parent speak to me after we did drills with chest protectors on. The parent said his son (a small 12 year old) had a sore sternum after the drills where we threw round kicks for accuracy (not power) at one another. I was his partner for most of the drills. I explained that my intention wasn't to hurt the boy & I'd certainly ease up next time. I also remined him that we use safety gear to minimize the damage done, but that TKD is a contact sport. It hasn't been an issue since.

As with the above story, I'd encourage the parent to speak with the instructor about the concern.instructor in order

 

[jim777]

Agreed, you can't really answer the question from the info given. There are so many situations in an MA class that could potentially end with someone being kicked, and not a single one is given for reference. The only worthwhile answer to the original question is, "Can you give us more detail and background please?"

 

[Kacey]

With that little information to go on - I'd have to go with the others who said they can't say. "Accident" is a question begging term as it is. Without knowing the context of the "accident", I really can't say. I asked those questions because I would want to know the answers to at least the first several before I could give a reasonable opinion.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Well.........

Judo/Jujutsu breakfall techniques can be taught with any other art without messing up its curriculum.......

 

[matt.m]

You know Terry, I know where you are going with this. "Back when" a.k.a. the 70's and early to mid 80's it was yes sir/ma'am. No sparring equipment either, for the most part.

However, I see 2 things wrong here. 1. An obvious outmatch, a grown man and a child. 2. Not to mention that for a black belt to kick a lower belt is insane anway. As a professional courtesy the black belt instructors job is to train and build good black belts, not beat the tar out of them just to show how tough they are.

I know of a few schools in the area that have that "Karate Kid Part 1" type of dojang. To this I say, "I will not subscribe such nonsense."

I have thrown a few of my students "Hard" for their belt level. However, I knew their capability and knew they could handle it.

I would tell a person to get off the mat, I wouldn't show them how tough I was etc.

Plus, the difference between an instructor and a teacher is this: Anyone can teach a shoulder throw or side kick. An instructor has automatic authority so to speak and their class wants to be loyal and hard working to that person.

 

[Tryak]

Hard to say without knowing the circumstances, however speaking from the perspective of my school the instructors usually pull the blow when working with a younger student if it is obvious it is going to go right through their guard.

 

[GlassJaw]

Kacey the question is taken from the website of USAT and is the way the parent ask it so I do not know what he is looking for. This was not my son but a parent of a diferent school all together.

You may wish to go back and edit your original post to indicate that you're quoting from someone else.

Dan

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Kacey the question is taken from the website of USAT and is the way the parent ask it so I do not know what he is looking for. This was not my son but a parent of a diferent school all together.

This makes your first two posts more congruent. I have to go with my new acronym: NEI; Not Enough Information.

I agree with your second post, Terry. Taekwondo is a martial art, not a feelgood exercise designed by infomercial sales gurus. I expect to take a bit of a beating when I go into class. I expect my sons to as well; we do full contact WTF sparring and yes, sometimes hits land off of that padding.

But if this kick was not a part of sparring or training, then I'd say that the instructor is very foolish in our litigatious climate.

Daniel

 

[jks9199]

I'm sorry -- there's just not nearly enough information to have any idea of how to respond beyond a generic "hey, martial arts is a contact sport, and things happen..."

Were they doing a sparring exercise? Did the kid simply slip on a wet spot on the floor? What were the relative ranks, and how old was the kid? (I'm assuming the original question regarded a kid who was training; if not, add why the hell was the instructor kicking a non-student? Unless the kid ran across the training floor unexpectedly, which produces a whole new set of questions...)

With the scant information provided, all you can really say is that if there are concerns about it, they should be addressed to the instructor or the school owner.

 

[Andrew Green]

Well, intent is what really counts. If a instructor is being a bully, get out and find another school. But contact is part of training, including getting kicked, and falling down.

If a parent doesn't want there kid to ever get a booboo, then buy them a x-Box and leave them in the basement on the couch all day with it. Good chance that they won't suffer serious health problems from never getting any excercise and having weak bones from lack of impact until they are no longer a kid

 

[terryl965]

Ok here it is from the parent own words:

My son was being disrespectful toward the instructor and he gave him a push kick in the hogu and he feel to the floor, no-one was hurt but my concern is this child abruse or it this the norm in a dojaang.

Sorry I needed to get more info. the child was 10 years old and to me it is better ways to earn respect from a child. So know with new info. what is everyone commits.

 

[Andrew Green]

I'd say that is a fairly clear no then, instructors should not use force as a disciplinary tool.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I'm inclined to agree with the other Andrew.

 

[Kacey]

This does, indeed, change my response. In the first post, the original question included "I know this was an accident"; in the clarification, it was a punishment for disrespect. I see these two as entirely different situations. If it were, for example, a sparring situation, in which the boy was kicked and fell down - that's an accident that occurs frequently in a contact sport. In the second situation, while there is still room for interpretation (but not nearly as much) I would say that this was, if not abuse, certainly closer than the former situation. As the Andrews have collectively said, force is not an appropriate form of discipline, especially from an adult senior (and an instructor, no less) to a child. Honestly, I find it inappropriate... but is it abuse? I can't say from the information provided.