Muwubu16858
Green Belt
Ball of foot
Roundhouse - toes or instep?
- Thread starter MBuzzy
- Start date
Master Jay S. Penfil
Blue Belt
It has always been my experience that many Korean systems focus more on top of the foot, while most Japanese systems focus on ball of the foot.
In sparring, most practitioners will use the top of the foot in order to safeguard against accidental injuries.
As was stated earlier; using the ball of the foot is good, and necessary to score on the body if the opponent has a strong guard position and you need to be able to place the kick either between the arms or behind the elbow.
Using the shin is a great way to apply heavier contact and break the opponents leg or crush his/her ribs, but will be less effective to the upper body and head if the opponent has a good guard position.
Using the big toe works great for delivering surgical strikes to nerve points. I use this technique all of the time with great success.
In my school I teach my student to use; A) the top of the foot, B) the ball of the foot, C) the shin, and D) the big toe. Each of these weapons works well in specific situations, and they should all be taught in every school.
I start my beginners out with the top of the foot. At 8th guep we start to work with the ball of the foot, at 6th guep we use the shin, and at 3rd guep we start to use the big toe.
The top of the foot should be used for soft targets, the ball of the foot for hard targets, the shin for kicks to the legs, hips, abdominal and rib shots. The big toe should only be used for nerve shots, as all nerve shots will be delivered to soft tissue areas of the body.
SIDE NOTE: For many years martial artists have used the term "Instep" to teach and discuss kicking with the top of the foot. The instep is actually located on the bottom of the foot in the middle.
Yours in Tang Soo Do,
Master Jay S. Penfil
TANG SOO
In sparring, most practitioners will use the top of the foot in order to safeguard against accidental injuries.
As was stated earlier; using the ball of the foot is good, and necessary to score on the body if the opponent has a strong guard position and you need to be able to place the kick either between the arms or behind the elbow.
Using the shin is a great way to apply heavier contact and break the opponents leg or crush his/her ribs, but will be less effective to the upper body and head if the opponent has a good guard position.
Using the big toe works great for delivering surgical strikes to nerve points. I use this technique all of the time with great success.
In my school I teach my student to use; A) the top of the foot, B) the ball of the foot, C) the shin, and D) the big toe. Each of these weapons works well in specific situations, and they should all be taught in every school.
I start my beginners out with the top of the foot. At 8th guep we start to work with the ball of the foot, at 6th guep we use the shin, and at 3rd guep we start to use the big toe.
The top of the foot should be used for soft targets, the ball of the foot for hard targets, the shin for kicks to the legs, hips, abdominal and rib shots. The big toe should only be used for nerve shots, as all nerve shots will be delivered to soft tissue areas of the body.
SIDE NOTE: For many years martial artists have used the term "Instep" to teach and discuss kicking with the top of the foot. The instep is actually located on the bottom of the foot in the middle.
Yours in Tang Soo Do,
Master Jay S. Penfil
TANG SOO
fireman00
Brown Belt
instep - for one reason... it is VERY difficult if not impossible to pull your toes back to kick an attacker while wearing street shoes.
JT_the_Ninja
Black Belt
instep, top of the foot...choice between one word or four. I always point out the part I mean when I'm showing a junior belt how to round kick, anyway. For me, the instep is that part of the foot.
Master Jay S. Penfil
Blue Belt
JT,
You are not alone when it comes to using the term "instep" in this way. I used it as well until I had a student a couple of years ago that was a foot doctor. He made the correction for me. If you ask a doctor, or anyone that is a student of anatomy they will tell you this as well.
I don't know who started using the term "instep to discuss the top of the foot, but it caught on and over the years was adopted by most all martial practitioners, regardless of what system they train in.
If it hadn't been pointed out to me by this doctor, I would still be using it as well.
Happy holidays...
Taiji_Mantis
Orange Belt
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What can I say that hasnt been said already?
I prefer the ball of the foot. I wear tactical boots much of the time, and so whether or not I can get my toes curled back is irrelevant. Additionally I dont have much of an issue with that when wearing my running shoes. Now biker or riding boots or my dress shoes possibly.
I also teach the shin. Thigh and floating ribs.
I prefer the ball of the foot. I wear tactical boots much of the time, and so whether or not I can get my toes curled back is irrelevant. Additionally I dont have much of an issue with that when wearing my running shoes. Now biker or riding boots or my dress shoes possibly.
I also teach the shin. Thigh and floating ribs.
mjd
Green Belt
I start with the ball of the foot and work back towards the knee covering everywhere inbetween.
I start to teach the ball first because it is the safest and hardest to learn. the top of the foot has many little weak bones and nerves close to the surface, beginners have trouble remembering what to use when and where, top of the foot to the teeth could cause life long damage to ones foot, by 4th gup I start bringing in the top of the foot and shin.
tang soo!
I start to teach the ball first because it is the safest and hardest to learn. the top of the foot has many little weak bones and nerves close to the surface, beginners have trouble remembering what to use when and where, top of the foot to the teeth could cause life long damage to ones foot, by 4th gup I start bringing in the top of the foot and shin.
tang soo!
Meghann1965
Yellow Belt
We teach our students to hit with the shin. The use of the toes is discouraged as we don't want anyone to break their foot. We have routine kicking drills to improve our techniques. It's always a good thing to work on with our new students and to remind the more established students how to kick.
TallAdam85
3rd Black Belt
Instep feels better for me and i teach it that way unless people wear boots often then i tell them to use the boots , even better if there steal toe boots
Both and range is a factor.
Sean
I was watching a MMA match the other day, I think it was a UFC fight, and one fo the fighters was kicking with the ball. What made it interesting was that the other guy was blocking at the shin (think a high kick blocked with forearm/fist next to temple. if the kicker had been using the top of the foot, the kick woudl have been blocked. HOWEVER he was using the ball, so he was getting contact with the guys head (and ribs) around the blocks.
astrobiologist
Brown Belt
Both...
Also, the shin, if strong enough, can be a very powerful tool. Think "baseball bat".
Someone replied before that one cannot do board breaks with the instep, but this is not the case. I've broken boards with the instep on a roundhouse, jump roundhouse, jump 360 roundhouse, and i've seen it with a tornado kick on the instep as well.
Also, the shin, if strong enough, can be a very powerful tool. Think "baseball bat".
Someone replied before that one cannot do board breaks with the instep, but this is not the case. I've broken boards with the instep on a roundhouse, jump roundhouse, jump 360 roundhouse, and i've seen it with a tornado kick on the instep as well.
Lynne
Master of Arts
We had been taught to do the roundhouse with the top of the foot/instep. The other night, I did roundhouse kicking with the ball of my foot for the first time. I can see the usefulness for breaking boards. Not sure if I'd crack the bones in the top of my foot trying to break a board with the top of the foot.
I'm not sure if it would be legal for us to use a shin in competition. Occasionally, I get someone with the shin during sparring.
I'm not sure if it would be legal for us to use a shin in competition. Occasionally, I get someone with the shin during sparring.
Always train in all catagory of kicking, there are so many variation of each kick, find which one works best for you in a SD principle way and go from there.
astrobiologist
Brown Belt
I totally agree... You should train to be an all around martial artist, not just a martial sport fighter who limits themselves to what is allowed for sparring or breaking.
I like to train in everything that I can, but there are some things that I'm just really good at. I have a unique way of fighting that is mine only. If I am in an encounter on the street, I'll probably only end up using a few basic principles to defend myself, letting the techniques flow as they must in the chaos.
I like to strike with the shin and the instep for the roundhouse, so that's what you'll see me use on the street if I'm wearing sneakers or other shoes that can bend. If I'm wearing a pair of workboots, then I'll probably use the shin or the ball of the foot (though in the boots it would be harder to get the toes back and the boot would reinforce the foot).
Meghann1965
Yellow Belt
I can see the benefits of both the top of the foot and the ball of the foot. I'm now training with a new school and they teach kicks with the ball of the foot, so I will have to re-learn my roundhouse kicks to hit with the ball of the foot. It's just a matter of re-arranging my thinking.
I haven't ever tried to break a board with a roundhouse kick, but I can't think that it would be effective to try to break with the top of my foot. There is much more force and power with the ball of the foot.
I haven't ever tried to break a board with a roundhouse kick, but I can't think that it would be effective to try to break with the top of my foot. There is much more force and power with the ball of the foot.
Don't recall if i chimed in earlier but we are taught both with more emphasis on the ball of the foot type. Here's my 3rd gup break requirement...
I had to do the break with the ball of the foot...
I had to do the break with the ball of the foot...
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JT_the_Ninja
Black Belt
Nice break, Joel. We have to do that break when testing for red belt (4th gup). I somehow managed to hit it (and break it) with the balls of my....bahls (kinda funny when you think of the Korean), but I usually break with my instep - which requires a bit of conditioning but is worlds easier if you can't pull back your toes, like me.
Tang Soo!
Tang Soo!
I wear steel tip shoes want to guess which I prefer out side of the school.
When I did instep kicks all of the time I developed a callous after a while that made me change shoe sizes. I also got my foot broken one time while doing an instep kick by a well place and strong block
When I did instep kicks all of the time I developed a callous after a while that made me change shoe sizes. I also got my foot broken one time while doing an instep kick by a well place and strong block
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JT_the_Ninja
Black Belt
Yeah, that's the downside: there's an upper limit to what you can do with your instep. Now would I try roundhouse kicking a brick wall? Probably, but not in earnest...round kicks are often used almost like jabs, not necessarily as the "break-you-in-two" move. When they are, though, the aim is to hit something that's not tough as a brick wall.
I'm still just providing excuses for my not being able to pull back my toes, but hey, we do what we gotta. You learn to know your body and work with its limits.
I'm still just providing excuses for my not being able to pull back my toes, but hey, we do what we gotta. You learn to know your body and work with its limits.
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