Rick T-post your evidence...

[A.R.K.]

Ok Rick, since you have decided to go the route of occasional snide remark, I'm calling you out.

In your first ever post to me you called me a cheat and a liar. Not very friendly and certainly not within the rules. So here is your opportunity to prove what you have said...

Post your factual proof that I have cheated someone....

Post your factual proof that I have lied to someone....

You have also made the snide remark that MOST everyone here is suspicious of my posts. A remark made in a thread NOT about me, to a poster who was not taking about ME in a subject unrelated to ME. Explain why you felt the need to bring me into the conversation with your snide remark and explain how you KNOW what MOST people think here on MT.....

I have serious doubts about you, but have left it pretty much alone. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt and welcoming you here. But if your going to open your mouth in a bunch of threads that have nothing to do with me with flames I'm going to take you to task.

Put up or shut up.

[Note to everyone-I would respectfully request that this conversation be between Rick and I alone. I'm not looking for allies and I think if indeed I'm what he says I am he be given this full opportunity to disclose ALL of his factual proof for all to see. I'm not looking for a war, but I'll not let his snide remarks slide. thank you.]

 

[Touch Of Death]

If you make a public challange to put up or shut up could you at least tell the public (or at least me) what threads you are refering to so that we can root for the good guy. common give a dog a bone here.

 

[MartialArtist]

You haven't cheated anyone.

But the organizations you belong to and the people who recognize your rank are questionable. That's it, it's not about your training, etc. It's your rank. The people who recognize your rank are the very same people that recognize themselves, and promoting each other in a never-ending circle. X organization promotes someone from Y organization and Z organization while Z and Y do the same. Well, not exactly but very similiar to that.

For instance, Il Do Kwan is a questionable organization because the founder has very minimal training (even says he's been training in white brow the most). Nobody has ever heard of Grandmaster Dong Gu Kang in Korea, and Grandmaster Bok Man Kim was not one of the original found head members of TKD. He promotes himself through various websites and people in Korea go, huh?

Just reading the man's bios is enough. There is no possible way he can train in all the arts, and claims the rank he has.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Rick Tsubota]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
Ok Rick, since you have decided to go the route of occasional snide remark, I'm calling you out.

In your first ever post to me you called me a cheat and a liar. Not very friendly and certainly not within the rules. So here is your opportunity to prove what you have said...

Please show the post where I called you a cheat and liar by name.

Post your proof that I said this about you exactly.
So now I call you out.

 

[MartialArtist]

Then there's the KYHA, which we already discussed, and the fact that the member is in the hall of fame... A hall of fame that promotes itself by having members of their organization in it and their buddies.

Then there's dan registry... Hmmmm... Okay, dan registration, what for? So questionable people have a questionable source to fall back on if their rank was challenged? Sorry, but no can do. Dan registrations don't come from general sources, where they recognize people of every discipline without a any proof whatsoever that can't be forged in a minute or so.

 

[paihequan]

Gentlemen,

I think that the issue here is rank although it should not be. What is more important (in my opinion at least) is what type of person one is, not what rank adorns their waist

I am sure (from reading his posts) that A.R.K. is a very fine person and one who cares deeply about that which he does and his martial art.

Rick is also one who displays a genuine dedication towards his art and learning.

This, to me, is where the real value of a person is to be found.

:asian:

 

[A.R.K.]

Ok, Rick has 'amnesia' which is another tactic used to stall for time. Fine. Before I knew Rick, before I even had a conversation with him, he decides to put in his two cents in the KYHA thread in Bad Budo...

Sounds like you are cheating people or just lying to them since the organization you belong exists for the purpose of doing what you don't believe in.

The man is a newbie, doesn't know me and decides I'm cheating people or lying to them. KYHA is a big MA's clubhouse, nothing more or less. I don't have a problem with clubhouses. I do have a problem with being called a cheat and liar, SO POST YOUR PROOF!!! If you are going to attack a fellow poster whom you don't know with strong words of accusation such as this then YOU MUST HAVE PROOF TO BACK IT UP. So post it!!!

Then there are other little gems...

I think most people are suspicious of you and your teacher because of the way you answer.

Dropped at the end of a post to DAC. The post wasn't about me or DAC, neither was the topic of conversation. But Rick slipped it in anyway. There was no call for it and it certainly isn't true. But Rick post HOW YOU KNOW MOST PEOPLE ARE SUSPICIOUS OF ME!!!! You don't just run off at the mouth like this without proof, OR DO YOU???

Truth is you are a shill for Robert. Truth is you are a puppet on his string. Funny how you've taken up against the same people he has!

Maybe this is why some people can't respect what you say.

It makes people think you are a liar if you do this.

He is another example of your newbie friendliness Rick. Not my problem if you can't understand what I'm saying in my posts. Ohters can and have stated so and thanked me, including the Yili guys on several occasions. Seems you can't because Robert's in your ear?

So again, POST YOUR PROOF THAT I AM A LIAR, A CHEAT, THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE SUSPICIOUS OF ME. You had your mind made up on 06-22-2003 05:59 AM, before I even knew you....so post your proof. No more stall tactics!

Martial Artist,

You haven't cheated anyone.

No duh.

But the organizations you belong to and the people who recognize your rank are questionable.

Is that right? Ok, list YOUR evidence. Don't even mention KYHA, THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE ANY OF MY RANKS, save my foundership in ARK. That is not questionable, that is fact. So post which organization is questionable that DOES recognize my ranks and list in detail your supporting proof. NOT your opinon! YOUR PROOF!

List the people you think are questionable with PROOF!

That's it, it's not about your training, etc. It's your rank.

Not even Robert was dumb enough to attack my training, because it is rock solid. A few here now personally what I have done and what I'm capable of doing. Many know that I've trained over a thousand military, LEO, EP, Corrections and they know who many teachers were! So your right, my training is impeccable. Yet they can't accept my rank? Give me a break. This isn't about rank, it's about Robert being cut to the core that someone stood up to him and told him the way it is and what a wind bag he really was. And you've backed a loser.

I can have great training just so long as no one recognizes it :shrug:

The people who recognize your rank are the very same people that recognize themselves, and promoting each other in a never-ending circle

The 'people'??? Give us NAMES and FACTS!!!! What RANKS???

For instance, Il Do Kwan is a questionable organization because the founder has very minimal training (even says he's been training in white brow the most).

A registered 6th Dan from the Kukkiwon is minimal training??? Seems he is pretty well known in Europe for his 'minimal' skills

Nobody has ever heard of Grandmaster Dong Gu Kang in Korea,

Nobody? NOBODY?? What are you smoking man I have a friend named Logan Lee [a native born Korean] that just finished a visit with him last month. I've corrosponded with him. Just because you don't know him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. You've never seen me either....by your logic I don't exist :shrug:

There is no possible way he can train in all the arts, and claims the rank he has.

Stop putting your limitations on other people. I've trained in multiple arts. Others have chosen to rank me in some of them. You gonna tell me I can't?? I'd like to see you try

You want to see questionable...go take a good, hard. long, honest look at your beloved Kukkiwon. I could be a registered master with them if I CHOOSE to. But I choose NOT to and it doesn't affect my skill ONE IOTA!!!!! If I choose to go with another organization, or none at all it doesn't affect my skill in the least bit.

If some people don't want to 'recognize' my 'rank' in whatever because I'm not with the organization they think I should be with.....WHO CARES! It doesnt' affect ANYTHING! You continually miss that point. So let me say it one more time so there is absolutely NO misunderstanding between us; Paper is only paper. Recognition from whatever source is a nicety NOT a necessity. A person with the best lineage can get his **** handed to him by a person with NO lineage. It is the skill, the heart and what the person does with both that count and it IS THE ONLY THING THAT TRULY COUNTS IN THE REAL WORLD! The rest is games for grown ups.

Waiting for answers......

 

[Disco]

When somebody takes/makes statements out of context just to forward their own position.

It was stated that Il Do Kwan (Head) was minimally trained. I just reviewed the web site and it looks like the man has plenty of background. Well just deal with him being 6th Dan Kukkiwon. I guess that holds no relevance. He stated that he only trained in several other styles (which the position taken is based on). There was no rank claimed other than the TaeKwonDo rank, all from Korea.

In another thread, this same somebody was (very politely I may add) corrected for even more erroneous statements.

To use a colloquial expression from the old wild west. "Speaks with forked tongue". Such tactics bring the user's credibility into question.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
Ok, Rick has 'amnesia' which is another tactic used to stall for time. Fine. Before I knew Rick, before I even had a conversation with him, he decides to put in his two cents in the KYHA thread in Bad Budo...



The man is a newbie, doesn't know me and decides I'm cheating people or lying to them. KYHA is a big MA's clubhouse, nothing more or less. I don't have a problem with clubhouses. I do have a problem with being called a cheat and liar, SO POST YOUR PROOF!!! If you are going to attack a fellow poster whom you don't know with strong words of accusation such as this then YOU MUST HAVE PROOF TO BACK IT UP. So post it!!!

Then there are other little gems...



Dropped at the end of a post to DAC. The post wasn't about me or DAC, neither was the topic of conversation. But Rick slipped it in anyway. There was no call for it and it certainly isn't true. But Rick post HOW YOU KNOW MOST PEOPLE ARE SUSPICIOUS OF ME!!!! You don't just run off at the mouth like this without proof, OR DO YOU???

Truth is you are a shill for Robert. Truth is you are a puppet on his string. Funny how you've taken up against the same people he has!



He is another example of your newbie friendliness Rick. Not my problem if you can't understand what I'm saying in my posts. Ohters can and have stated so and thanked me, including the Yili guys on several occasions. Seems you can't because Robert's in your ear?

So again, POST YOUR PROOF THAT I AM A LIAR, A CHEAT, THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE SUSPICIOUS OF ME. You had your mind made up on 06-22-2003 05:59 AM, before I even knew you....so post your proof. No more stall tactics!

Martial Artist,



No duh.



Is that right? Ok, list YOUR evidence. Don't even mention KYHA, THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE ANY OF MY RANKS, save my foundership in ARK. That is not questionable, that is fact. So post which organization is questionable that DOES recognize my ranks and list in detail your supporting proof. NOT your opinon! YOUR PROOF!

List the people you think are questionable with PROOF!



Not even Robert was dumb enough to attack my training, because it is rock solid. A few here now personally what I have done and what I'm capable of doing. Many know that I've trained over a thousand military, LEO, EP, Corrections and they know who many teachers were! So your right, my training is impeccable. Yet they can't accept my rank? Give me a break. This isn't about rank, it's about Robert being cut to the core that someone stood up to him and told him the way it is and what a wind bag he really was. And you've backed a loser.

I can have great training just so long as no one recognizes it :shrug:



The 'people'??? Give us NAMES and FACTS!!!! What RANKS???



A registered 6th Dan from the Kukkiwon is minimal training??? Seems he is pretty well known in Europe for his 'minimal' skills



Nobody? NOBODY?? What are you smoking man I have a friend named Logan Lee [a native born Korean] that just finished a visit with him last month. I've corrosponded with him. Just because you don't know him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. You've never seen me either....by your logic I don't exist :shrug:



Stop putting your limitations on other people. I've trained in multiple arts. Others have chosen to rank me in some of them. You gonna tell me I can't?? I'd like to see you try

You want to see questionable...go take a good, hard. long, honest look at your beloved Kukkiwon. I could be a registered master with them if I CHOOSE to. But I choose NOT to and it doesn't affect my skill ONE IOTA!!!!! If I choose to go with another organization, or none at all it doesn't affect my skill in the least bit.

If some people don't want to 'recognize' my 'rank' in whatever because I'm not with the organization they think I should be with.....WHO CARES! It doesnt' affect ANYTHING! You continually miss that point. So let me say it one more time so there is absolutely NO misunderstanding between us; Paper is only paper. Recognition from whatever source is a nicety NOT a necessity. A person with the best lineage can get his **** handed to him by a person with NO lineage. It is the skill, the heart and what the person does with both that count and it IS THE ONLY THING THAT TRULY COUNTS IN THE REAL WORLD! The rest is games for grown ups.

Waiting for answers......

Here are a couple of organizations in your links page. Just look what the entire organizations stand for...

http://www.usadr.iwarp.com/index.html - on rank
http://www.ildokwan.us/ - not on rank
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4937/kya.html - as you said, they don't recognize your rank

And who else exactly recognizes your rank?

Look, that guy does not have a 6th dan. Kinda like how DAC had a 6th dan, right? There are limitations, it's just physically impossible to get that in the amount of time, but I guess you don't understand that.

And no, nobody in Korea has ever heard of him. There are quite a few people who can name the founders of TKD, but he is not one of them. They can name a lot of the hapkido guys, and can even name a lot of the Japanese and Okinawan guys although the older generation does not like to hear of it. You're using a guy named Logan Lee as proof that the old grandmaster exists. I don't doubt he exists, but I doubt what he gives out.

You can be a master from Kukkiwon? Prove it, back up your claim. And post the certificate right here. And yes, I can tell if it's a real certificate or not, not that handwritten certificate that Dac had that said "Yoo" which really insn't a word by itself under the name section or something and looked like it was written by a foreigner at his first attempt at writing in hangul.

Nobody attacks your training because you don't give any information out on your training. But I personally don't doubt that you are a bad martial artist, but you can go on claiming that your training is rock solid and all that.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Disco
When somebody takes/makes statements out of context just to forward their own position.

It was stated that Il Do Kwan (Head) was minimally trained. I just reviewed the web site and it looks like the man has plenty of background. Well just deal with him being 6th Dan Kukkiwon. I guess that holds no relevance. He stated that he only trained in several other styles (which the position taken is based on). There was no rank claimed other than the TaeKwonDo rank, all from Korea.

In another thread, this same somebody was (very politely I may add) corrected for even more erroneous statements.

To use a colloquial expression from the old wild west. "Speaks with forked tongue". Such tactics bring the user's credibility into question.

:rofl:

Yeah, I was corrected erroneously... Actually, I was corrected on one topic that wasn't really relevent to the topic. But you can go on doing whatever floats your boat.

And you are an instructor in ARK's organization, so yeah, I'll take your word for it over everyone else.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by paihequan
Gentlemen,

I think that the issue here is rank although it should not be. What is more important (in my opinion at least) is what type of person one is, not what rank adorns their waist

I am sure (from reading his posts) that A.R.K. is a very fine person and one who cares deeply about that which he does and his martial art.

Rick is also one who displays a genuine dedication towards his art and learning.

This, to me, is where the real value of a person is to be found.

:asian:

If you make a claim, then back it up. If you are unable, that gives a lot on your character.

I remember a long time ago ARK made a claim in a Japanese system and RSK called him out. ARK has still been unable to answer from what I hear.

 

[Disco]

You were erroneously corrected on a subject that wasen't even germain to the thread.

So the person who corrected you is either not telling the truth or is just not knowledgeable. Did you inform this person of his error. I'm sure being a Kukkiwon Master Instructor, he will undoubtedly be appriciaitive of having this oversite of knowledge corrected.

The subject in question, that was not relevant (your words), was introduced / posted by you. If it had no business with the subject being discussed, why post it. This is not the first time I have observed this action.

What about what I originally posted in referance to your insightful exclusion of listed background training of the head of the Il do kwan. Is he not a 6th Kukkiwon? You focused in on a minor style he trained in and based your whole discourse on that.

Yes I am attached to ARK. I have tried to stay somewhat neutral throughout ALL of the proceedings. The man can stand for himself. I'm still not attempting to take sides, I'm only debating things that you said / posted and they had nothing to do with ARK directly. I asked you about someone else (Il do kwan).
And if you need to know, I am Kukkiwon Certified 4th Dan #05037041.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Gentelmen Please keep it friendly and polite.

Also read: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8708

Because this argument is going from thread to thread this is not your first warning Please play nice

 

[Rick Tsubota]

ARK,

Nice try but I still don see where I said "ARK is a liar" or "ArK is a cheat".

I just wrote "sounds like", I think it's different

 

[A.R.K.]

Martial Artist,

Look, that guy does not have a 6th dan.

What guy are you talking about? Your post has me confused the way you've written it.

I remember a long time ago ARK made a claim in a Japanese system and RSK called him out. ARK has still been unable to answer from what I hear

Really? That is news to me! I've never claimed rank in a Japanese system. What is the name of this alleged system?

You can be a master from Kukkiwon?

Yes, I have a 4th Dan in TKD which if memory serves...is a master rating in Kukkiwon. Trained by a Kukkiwon master. I chose not to go Kukkiwon, but I certainly could have. What would you like to see, the school cert with the signig authority? At some point I may ask WIF to recognize them within their organization officially.

 

[A.R.K.]

Rick,

Now your playing symantics. Either you are saying that or you are not...which is it.

Post your proof that most people are suspicious of my posts. In fact, I have received kind words and thanks for what I have posted by many. Including as I said some of the Yili folks. So back up your words.....

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Rick Tsubota
Nice try but I still don see where I said "ARK is a liar" or "ArK is a cheat".

I just wrote "sounds like", I think it's different

How?

 

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Look, that guy does not have a 6th dan. Kinda like how DAC had a 6th dan, right?

And yes, I can tell if it's a real certificate or not, not that handwritten certificate that Dac had that said "Yoo" which really insn't a word by itself under the name section or something and looked like it was written by a foreigner at his first attempt at writing in hangul.

First off if you have a problem with somthing in my credentials, WHY NOT ASK ME? Why do you continue to use me as a tool to try to get at ARK. I thought I had already cleared up the fact that I was misled and lied to about that rank, and I no longer claim it.


Martial Artist,

When I came to you and asked you to take a look at one of my certificates your answers made me question the instructor wich I had recieved it from (heres my story) in this section. I do appreciate what you did for me, but if youll remember I told you before I e-mailed that cert. that I didnt want my personal info.. all over this board, you agreed that you would respect my privacy so why are you now posting my misfortune on this board you have lost any respect you had from me and cannot be trusted, people can say what they want about RSK as much as him and I didnt see eye to eye and also him and ARK at least he respected my privacy on this same issue. That was a favor I asked of you and I hoped that would be a man of your word, I GUESS I WAS WRONG IN TRUSTING YOU!

 

[Kingston]

This thread is getting stupid......

To A.R.K who cares what these jokers say on the internet, are you seriously going to call out EVERY person who has a problem with you?

To others who cares what there rank is...have any of you tried there system? Know anyone who tried there system? They created a new system for gods sake they can be 24th dan ultimate master if he wants.....its "his" (and other ARK dudes) system.

What is this thread acomplishing.......is ARK a good person? Who the F*ck cares.....did DAC get a mcdojo 6th dan.....yes.....BUT does he still claim it as his rank? NO so WHO CARES. Why is DAC in this thread anyway..........ITS NOT ABOUT HIM. or A.R.K (the system)

its about ARK (the dude) getting angry over Rich voicing his opinion (no matter how uneducated) on a medium thats MENT FOR IT.

ARK needs to chill this thread needs to be locked, Rich need to go to the school (or perhaps talk with an experienced student of the school) BEFORE he talks ****.

people are getting things mixed up.....shady dan ranks in ARK? (thats another problem all together...ranking for any art) does it really matter now.... Now that hes teaching ( or has settled with a system name) all that matters is HIS ability to TEACH, nothing more.......so find out if hes a good teacher....if so, good, if not....well how bad is it? Of course once again dont forget the most important part of this post WHO CARES and coming in at a close second IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!

 

[A.R.K.]

Either he is hoping your misfortune somehow reflects badly on me or he hasn't gotten the fact that THAT instructor from your past was years before you and I meet.

I'm still waiting for several answers from him....