Richard Barathy/American Combat Karate

[Bushi40]

Hi its Gene Perceval

It seems that no matter what is said about Richard Barathy, you have made your mind up and that I do respect you for. There is a problem here going back and forth, this discussion can and will reach a life of its own where tempers will arise and perhaps become insulting. I do not wish that to occur on Richard Barathy’s Martial Talk pages. Would I would like to see, is, direct questions and answers that can be productive and share what is unknown by those who did not know Richard Barathy personally.

As far as Peter Urban, who is also passed away, I knew him very well also. Trying to remember back, Peter Urban was a good hand and fist fighter, he and Gary Alexander (who was known for his leg techniques) were matched against each other several times, they (back then) were the great fights. Peter Urban, was a 4th degree black belt in the Go Ju system originated from Japan and went to Japan for his 5th degree testing. I may be incorrect, but, as I remember (which only a few knew) Peter Urban did not pass his 5th Dan test or had a disagreement over there and came back upset. As a result, he broke away from the Japanese Goju and started a path his own way of thought calling it American Goju. The rest is history.

I see the glass half full, not half empty, Enjoy, that is what this is all about.

Thank you for letting me express my feelings. By the way, I have been writing a book on the martial arts for the last 4 years, with luck, I hope it will be finished by the end of this year, it is rather thick.

Gene Perceval

 

[Burnerbob]

I apologize for writing this in a column about Sensi Barathy. Master Perceval is correct this should be moved.

 

[YoungMan]

I have met many "KoreanMasters" who boast a 10th Dan, and when I bring up the fact that Gen.ChoiHee who founded "Tae Kwon Do" only issued up to 9th degree, their answer is This is my style of Tae Kwon Do
As far as O'Sensei Urban, he attained the rank of 6th Dan. This was told to me personally by Yamaguci while I was in Japan.
There was a disagreement with Sensi Urban and Gosei Yamaguci, the son of the founder as to who should be the US reprsentive of GoJu.
He challanged Urban to a "Death Match, which he lost however Urban would not kill him for respect to Yamaguci Master.

Didn't answer my question. I asked if Peter Urban declared himself 10th Dan. Yes, I know many Korean Instructors declare themselves rank they are not and have phoney certificates printed up stating as such. It doesn't make it any more right when they do it. Be careful who you associate with.
Anyway, it is one thing to disagree with someone who disagrees with your training methods or philosophy. Calling someone arrogant and ignorant because they disagree with your methods is immature and shows a lack of wisdom. I don't agree with some of the methods used by many of the Instructors in our organization. However, we still agree on enough things and root principles that we get along.
You admire, respect, and follow the things Barathy taught. That's fine. It doesn't mean we all have to or should.
By the way, it's "Sensei" not "Sensi". Which begs the question: if Barathy turned his back on the Japanese roots of his "style" to create an "American style", why even use the term "Sensei"?

 

[MJS]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Final Warning.

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Mike Slosek
-MT Asst. Admin-

 

[Burnerbob]

Didn't answer my question. I asked if Peter Urban declared himself 10th Dan. Yes, I know many Korean Instructors declare themselves rank they are not and have phony certificates printed up stating as such. It doesn't make it any more right when they do it. Be careful who you associate with.
Anyway, it is one thing to disagree with someone who disagrees with your training methods or philosophy. Calling someone arrogant and ignorant because they disagree with your methods is immature and shows a lack of wisdom. I don't agree with some of the methods used by many of the Instructors in our organization. However, we still agree on enough things and root principles that we get along.
You admire, respect, and follow the things Barathy taught. That's fine. It doesn't mean we all have to or should.
By the way, it's "Sensei" not "Sensi". Which begs the question: if Barathy turned his back on the Japanese roots of his "style" to create an "American style", why even use the term "Sensei"?

Excuse my spelling Sensei Urban was granted that rank from the "Budokukai" headed by Grand Master Richard Kim and Mas Oyama.
Sensei Barathy did not denounce Japanese Tradition. Again ignorance and arrogance, not because you disagree with myself and others, rather from forming an opinion based on magazine articles. Not knowing and understanding those involved.

 

[Bushi40]

Thank you for clearing that up, I did not know the actual facts. But I do remember Peter Urban going to Japan and coming back not very happy.

Gene Perceval

 

[bengquan]

Hey YoungMan,

What do you consider the "Art" in the term Martial Art?

 

[YoungMan]

That could be a thread in itself, and probably is. To me, among other things, it is allowing you to express grace, individuality, beauty, and philosophy through your practice of a particular style. Very hard to explain. It is NOT just a set of fighting techniques and hurting people.

 

[bengquan]

Just curious but how do you know that Richard Barathy didn't do these things, or have these qualities? I don't believe that you ever met the man, so I don't know where you are getting your basis from.

 

[stone_dragone]

In hopes of bringing the discussion back to one about Mr. Barathy and American Combat Karate, can anyone here provide a sample curriculum as taught by Mr. Barathy other than "full contact sparring" or "bastardizing tradition?"

I am authentically interested in this and can find disturbingly little information regarding it. Many pages ago it was said that he used a lot of repetition and the like but what was being repeated?

Were/are belts formally tested for or were they presented based on continual assessment? What is the belt structure? Katas or no (this is kinda unclear through the readings...)?

Thanks much!

 

[Bushi40]

Hello again, its Gene Perceval

As one aspect of the martial arts, Richard Barathy was a firm believer that a true martial artist should be fully capable of defending him/her self without any hesitation of thought. Thus, the no-thought concept. If one practices effectively and proficiently continuously, the motor control (activation of muscles) from constant stimulation builds a direct path to the neurons. Where no-thought is required which would slow down the reflex action. Such as riding a bike or driving a car without having to constantly monitor your mental or physical.

Be what you may think of Richard Barathy, but, perhaps not knowing him directly, the media, magazines, etc. are always looking for the spectacular, never the normal, that is what sells, because of this, I could understand how and why you came to the conclusion on how you think about Richard Barathy.

Being that Richard Barathy as he was, he felt that his way of thought and teaching concepts best fit the way in which best fits the American Combat style of teaching. Therefore, tradition in the old way, was not lost, it was just taught a little differently in the best way he felt he could express himself.

Sometimes it is difficult to understand what is not presented in a proper Bushido format when it is taken out of concept by the media. In over 52 years in the martial arts, I have seen many of self made black belts giving themselves all kinds of rank, as well as giving out rank freely as to make themselves seem more important for others to recognize, many came and have gone, and still, many not worth the rank they are still wearing. There are a few old timers who know who they are. They are who you should be attacking, but not Richard Barathy.

Enjoy
Gene Perceval

 

[Burnerbob]

Well said from one of the most respected and proven "Grand Masters"

 

[CGMWilling]

I find it very interesting that people can sit in judgement on who is in fact a true martial artist.

I have been a martial artist for over 38 years and have had the pleasure of working with some of the greatest of our time. I have degree BlackBelts in American Combat under Richard Barathy and a 5th degree blackbelt in Tai-Zen from Chief Grand Master Howard Tague. I briefly worked alongside of Gene Purcivelle Bobby Greene and may other greats during Black Belt Classes With Richie and Master Tague. I have worked with High Belts in many systems and have performed alongside of some of the biggest names of our generation at the Oriental World of self Defense.I recieved my first Black Belt from Kasim Dubar, a World champion Kickboxer who has fought the likes of Erroll Bennett and Wildcat Molinas. I have met and worked with traditionalists and some very creative geniuses too.

To be a true musician you do not have to stick to Mozart and classical music, although they are still brilliant works of art. Times change circumstances change, enviornments change. Rock and Roll musicians are still artists even though they do not use traditional instruments. they are all musicians and artists. After all the only important thing is that music adds to the quality of life for those who practice and those who listen.

The Martial arts is similar. Its origins are self defense. Those who practice traditional art forms are as much "martial artists" as are the bold pioneers who strive to bring the art foward to apply to todays laws and enviornment. The physicians of medieval times were great men of medicine and I am sure that they would be happy with the advances of today. after all it was all about health and quality of life for their patients. Again, the martial arts is the same way, its all about the safety of our students and helping them to become the best people they can be. There are many men who have dedicated their lives to the art, not for profit alone, but because they believe in what they do. Traditionalists believe and non traditionalists believe in what they do. They are both true martial artists and warriors for there causes. Whatever my personal beliefs are do not diminish others accomplishments. Sitting in judgement is shallow and unfair to those who work so hard and sacrafice so much.....Renshi Willing

 

[Burnerbob]

I find it very interesting that people can sit in judgement on who is in fact a true martial artist.

I have been a martial artist for over 38 years and have had the pleasure of working with some of the greatest of our time. I have degree BlackBelts in American Combat under Richard Barathy and a 5th degree blackbelt in Tai-Zen from Chief Grand Master Howard Tague. I briefly worked alongside of Gene Purcivelle Bobby Greene and may other greats during Black Belt Classes With Richie and Master Tague. I have worked with High Belts in many systems and have performed alongside of some of the biggest names of our generation at the Oriental World of self Defense.I recieved my first Black Belt from Kasim Dubar, a World champion Kickboxer who has fought the likes of Erroll Bennett and Wildcat Molinas. I have met and worked with traditionalists and some very creative geniuses too.

To be a true musician you do not have to stick to Mozart and classical music, although they are still brilliant works of art. Times change circumstances change, enviornments change. Rock and Roll musicians are still artists even though they do not use traditional instruments. they are all musicians and artists. After all the only important thing is that music adds to the quality of life for those who practice and those who listen.

The Martial arts is similar. Its origins are self defense. Those who practice traditional art forms are as much "martial artists" as are the bold pioneers who strive to bring the art foward to apply to todays laws and enviornment. The physicians of medieval times were great men of medicine and I am sure that they would be happy with the advances of today. after all it was all about health and quality of life for their patients. Again, the martial arts is the same way, its all about the safety of our students and helping them to become the best people they can be. There are many men who have dedicated their lives to the art, not for profit alone, but because they believe in what they do. Traditionalists believe and non traditionalists believe in what they do. They are both true martial artists and warriors for there causes. Whatever my personal beliefs are do not diminish others accomplishments. Sitting in judgement is shallow and unfair to those who work so hard and sacrafice so much.....Renshi Willing

Ush

 

[pjd5150]

Well said Renshi Willing. OOSH!
It's amazing that people who never trained with or studied under Kyoshi Barathy, never conversed with or even met, only have read a few magazine articles, can spread such negativity. I found this forum from a google search and was disappointed to read the negative views a few misinformed people. What this forum should be about is remembering one of the great Martial Artist of our time. A man who owned many successful Karate Schools when there wasn't a Karate school on every block and wasn't common place as it is today. A man who taught a group of Black Belts second to none; Bacci, Green, Finnigan, McCaffrey, DeAngelo, DeAngelo, Willing, Squatrito and others. Let's also remember Richard Barathy was a personal trainer to many high profile athletes, again, when it wasn't the fashionable thing to do; Freeman McNeil, Gastineau, Bobby Jackson, Vitas Garalitis, Gerry Cooney, Billy Smith; all of whom came to him to help their careers. So, let's turn this forum back to where it should be, about a great Martial Artist, Richard A. Barathy. To the rest of you, continue reading your magazines.
PJ

 

[Burnerbob]

Well said Renshi Willing. OOSH!
It's amazing that people who never trained with or studied under Kyoshi Barathy, never conversed with or even met, only have read a few magazine articles, can spread such negativity. I found this forum from a google search and was disappointed to read the negative views a few misinformed people. What this forum should be about is remembering one of the great Martial Artist of our time. A man who owned many successful Karate Schools when there wasn't a Karate school on every block and wasn't common place as it is today. A man who taught a group of Black Belts second to none; Bacci, Green, Finnigan, McCaffrey, DeAngelo, DeAngelo, Willing, Squatrito and others. Let's also remember Richard Barathy was a personal trainer to many high profile athletes, again, when it wasn't the fashionable thing to do; Freeman McNeil, Gastineau, Bobby Jackson, Vitas Garalitis, Gerry Cooney, Billy Smith; all of whom came to him to help their careers. So, let's turn this forum back to where it should be, about a great Martial Artist, Richard A. Barathy. To the rest of you, continue reading your magazines.
PJ

You forgot "Pro Wrestler" Billy Graham"

 

[pjd5150]

Young"man", you put way too much thought into the Gi, way more than Kyoshi Barathy did. Red White & Blue; the colors or our flag, the colors of his schools, his Harley was also painted with the stars and stripes. That Gi belongs in the Martial Arts Hall of Fame!

 

[YoungMan]

You mean alongside so-called "masters" who proclaimed themselves 7th and 8th Dan because their egos demanded it? I suppose you're right.

 

[SageGhost83]

Whoa, it is so feisty in here! There are lots of masters who do things different from the way that I was taught to do them, but I would never ever disrespect them or call their skill into question merely because they do not follow the same traditions that I follow. That would be just plain ignorant and arrogant on my part. There are many paths but they all lead to the top of the mountain. What he taught, regardless of how his gi looked, was very effective and it successfully met the needs of he and his students. So what exactly is the problem? I wouldn't want to wear a red, white, and blue gi either because I think that it is tacky, but that is just my own opinion. If he wants to do things that way then fine, whatever floats his boat, and if it works for he and his students then who are we to question? It is about humility and respect, and it is about respecting the ways of others even though they may be different from our own ways. There are so many different color gi's these days and I don't like it either, but there are some who do and we must respect that. If their skills are very good and they can hold their own against anyone, then what exactly is the problem? I personally could care less about what someone is wearing, they could be stark raving naked for all I care! If the skill, dedication, and respect are there, then the rest is just unnecessary nit picking. I have never been disrespected by someone wearing a fruity tuity multi-colored gi, however, I have met many a jerk in a plain white traditional gi. Never judge a book by its cover. Prejudice is disgusting.

 

[stone_dragone]

You Sir are set in your ways, again criticizing a great individual despite what everyone has stated.
I guess "Kenpo" was wrong to have black gi's, and MooDuKwan for having ""Trimmed" . What "Gi" a person wears does not make or break him, rather what they have done. After 11 pages on Master Barathy, you still have doubts ? It is ashame he is no longer here for you to get it from the horses mouth!

Burnerbob,

It is admirable that you and almost everyone who trained with Barathy Kyoshi hold him in such high regard. It is unfortunate that there will always be others who will refuse to look past appearances and appreciate talent, worth and skill.