RETURN: of the King, or the Jedi?

[zDom]

A recent thread has been discussing the Lord of the Rings and Middle Earth.

It reminded me of a scene from Clerks II in which Randal Graves busts on a Lord of the Rings fan:

"All right look, there's only one return, okay, and it ain't "of the King," it's "of the Jedi."

Well, I've got to admit: I am a double geek (geek squared?) because I really dig BOTH "universes." Both are very dear to my heart.

(zDom = sentimental nerd )

So, my question for discussion is:

Which saga, which universe, do you like better?

Not comparing the movies, just comparing the entire scope, the entire "Middle Earth" universe (Silmarillion, The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, Unfinished Stories) with the entire scope of the Star Wars universe (all six movies, all the books)?

and why?

Or, alternately phrase the question, if you had to pick just one or the other, which would it be and why?

 

[exile]

Which saga, which universe, do you like better?

Not comparing the movies, just comparing the entire scope, the entire "Middle Earth" universe (Silmarillion, The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, Unfinished Stories) with the entire scope of the Star Wars universe (all six movies, all the books)?

and why?

Or, alternately phrase the question, if you had to pick just one or the other, which would it be and why?

Now, instead of going to bed and falling asleep like a reasonable person should be doing, I'm going to lie there for a couple of hours or so and try to decide which one, and why, and how to articulate it best...

This is what I get for having `just one last look' at the new threads on MT before turning in! :wink1:

Will try to have an answer later in the morning... probably will fall asleep over my keyboard before I manage to finish the post, though.

 

[Makalakumu]

A recent thread has been discussing the Lord of the Rings and Middle Earth.

It reminded me of a scene from Clerks II in which Randal Graves busts on a Lord of the Rings fan:

"All right look, there's only one return, okay, and it ain't "of the King," it's "of the Jedi."

Well, I've got to admit: I am a double geek (geek squared?) because I really dig BOTH "universes." Both are very dear to my heart.

(zDom = sentimental nerd )

So, my question for discussion is:

Which saga, which universe, do you like better?

Not comparing the movies, just comparing the entire scope, the entire "Middle Earth" universe (Silmarillion, The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, Unfinished Stories) with the entire scope of the Star Wars universe (all six movies, all the books)?

and why?

Or, alternately phrase the question, if you had to pick just one or the other, which would it be and why?

Geek Squared? I got you beat. I would have added Randland and the WOT universe. Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time rocks!

Geek Cubed!

Anyway, if I had to pick one, I'd go with LoTR. This universe is so deep linguisticly, drawing on so many literary traditions, and intertwining so many different mythologies that the Star Wars universe really doesn't even approach it. Sure, the writers of Star Wars attempt it, but it comes off as being very superficial.

Tokien makes connections using single words that would absolutely blow your mind!

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I'd say Middle Earth is a much more realized and complete "universe" but the Star Wars one is more fun.

Both great, just different.

Jeff

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I really cannot pick one over the other. They are both great!

 

[Bigshadow]

OH the choices! I cannot pick! LOTR is an very cool world and so is Star Wars. I cannot pick, they both are cool!

 

[bydand]

If we HAD to pick one, I would lean toward Star Wars. Before anybody says anything about universe development and the pure writing aspect of the two. Based upon everything that is out there for us to evaluate between these two, it boils down to Star Wars having hotter looking women in their movies. OK that may be a totally superficial and sexist thing to base a dicision on, but I'm standing by it. Lets see: Golum in his loincloth, or Princess Leah in her "jaba" outfit? Pademe in that White jumpsuit... oh I could go on; but I will not. I have dug a hole big enough for myself this morning.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

If we HAD to pick one, I would lean toward Star Wars. Before anybody says anything about universe development and the pure writing aspect of the two. Based upon everything that is out there for us to evaluate between these two, it boils down to Star Wars having hotter looking women in their movies. OK that may be a totally superficial and sexist thing to base a dicision on, but I'm standing by it. Lets see: Golum in his loincloth, or Princess Leah in her "jaba" outfit? Pademe in that White jumpsuit... oh I could go on; but I will not. I have dug a hole big enough for myself this morning.

It's hard to argue with his logic!

 

[Bigshadow]

If we HAD to pick one, I would lean toward Star Wars. Before anybody says anything about universe development and the pure writing aspect of the two. Based upon everything that is out there for us to evaluate between these two, it boils down to Star Wars having hotter looking women in their movies. OK that may be a totally superficial and sexist thing to base a dicision on, but I'm standing by it. Lets see: Golum in his loincloth, or Princess Leah in her "jaba" outfit? Pademe in that White jumpsuit... oh I could go on; but I will not. I have dug a hole big enough for myself this morning.

I don't know, there are those elven women. Plus they have magic to keep things spiced up a bit! :rofl:

 

[Makalakumu]

If we HAD to pick one, I would lean toward Star Wars. Before anybody says anything about universe development and the pure writing aspect of the two. Based upon everything that is out there for us to evaluate between these two, it boils down to Star Wars having hotter looking women in their movies. OK that may be a totally superficial and sexist thing to base a dicision on, but I'm standing by it. Lets see: Golum in his loincloth, or Princess Leah in her "jaba" outfit? Pademe in that White jumpsuit... oh I could go on; but I will not. I have dug a hole big enough for myself this morning.

Arwen, Galadrial, Eowyn, etc...

Oh Aragorn, Arwen would have never known...

When I was 13 and I probably would have picked Star Wars too, based on the above criteria!

 

[bydand]

Oh well, elvin women are nice, but... Yeah I would have picked Star Wars at 13 as well, but it wasn't out quite yet. But for now, I'll stick to it. Maybe (God forbid) once I grow up my mind will change.

 

[Bigshadow]

I'm never gonna grow up!

 

[Lisa]

If we HAD to pick one, I would lean toward Star Wars. Before anybody says anything about universe development and the pure writing aspect of the two. Based upon everything that is out there for us to evaluate between these two, it boils down to Star Wars having hotter looking women in their movies. OK that may be a totally superficial and sexist thing to base a dicision on, but I'm standing by it. Lets see: Golum in his loincloth, or Princess Leah in her "jaba" outfit? Pademe in that White jumpsuit... oh I could go on; but I will not. I have dug a hole big enough for myself this morning.

Oh bydand that truly is a bit of a sexist thing to say but it goes both ways...

Furry big footed short men compared to light sabre yeilding men with kick *** bodies. Men that quite possible have showered in the recent millenium compare to those who have ran cross country without a bath in who knows how long (ick!)...short dwarf men and pansy elves compare to...well you all get my drift now don't you?

 

[mrhnau]

I'd say Middle Earth is a much more realized and complete "universe" but the Star Wars one is more fun.

Both great, just different.

Jeff

Well, Middle Earth was introduced first in written form, while Star Wars came first as visual.

Middle Earth spawned a totally new (well, mostly new) genre, however, the main characters were not included in the largest body of work (books, games, movies, etc). With Star Wars, it was not totally new (space movies had been done before) but the following body of work (the books, comics, etc) tended to keep those main characters in focus. You keep a better feel of participants. The visual feel of the movies was fairly revolutionary, so it helped introduce better movies in the future I think.

both are fantastic, but fairly different... If I -had- to choose, I'd probably say Star Wars.

 

[exile]

Thought about it quite a bit and finally decided on Tolkien's world. It's hard to explain why, but it has something to do with the sense that Tolkien creates almost better than anyone---that there is this magical realm on the other side of the the bubble whose outward surface appears to us as the just the ordinary sequence of everyday events. For JRRT the beauty of the natural world itself reflects the presence of a very deep kind of magic, and it's that beauty that gives the Elves their special quality and their inherent magic.


The Valar have something to do with this too... very hard to explain (for those of you who have ever followed the Marvel comics multiverse, the Valar add a similar dimension to the conflicts in LoTR and the Silmarillion that the Living Tribunal adds to the Marvel multiverse, for me anyway...) The sense that the immortal guardians are the world are engaged, even from a great distance, with the struggles of (often very) ordinary mortals adds a kind of grandeur to Tolkien's world that I don't quite find in Lucas'.

 

[Mcura]

On a personal reason, I have yet to be dissappointed when I read through the Lord of the Rings trilogy, or see the movies. Not once. I still walk away from the experience with a grin on my face and a sense of inspiration in my heart.

However, the Star Wars universe in the last five years has kind of let me down. For example, one word has essentially stripped out the sheer power and wonder of a key plot element of Star Wars and the universe it comprises.

Midichlorians.

Uuuuuuugh ... blech, blech, blech. Unclean, unclean.

 

[Blindside]

LoTR hands down, the movies were a good adaption of amazing books. Star Wars was two good movies (maybe three) that after Empire pandered to children and the book expansion while prolific is mediocre.

Lamont

 

[MA-Caver]

If I had to choose one or the other I'm pretty sure I'd choose LOTR. While the Star Wars saga was exciting and full of fun technology and daring adventures and all of that... For me LOTR was a richer more "human" adventure/saga. Sure there were dwarves and elves and then the baddies orcs and goblins and witchkings and all that but the hero characters were (IMO) more closer to human. Perhaps I mean that they were untainted by technological surroundings. They had to struggle to get to their goals without the aid of hyperdrives, land speeders/bikes, light sabers and droids.
They were fighting pure evil (Sauron) instead of humans who were just overall very bad men. They trudged on for days/weeks and months on their own power over harsh and difficult terrian and so forth.
Reading the books (and eventually watching the films) you get a truer sense of their caring for each other as individuals and their willingness to sacrifice for each other to defeat the evil which has come to threaten their homes and their way of life.
The endearing friendship of Samwise and Frodo can be clearly felt while reading the books (Tolkien was a master story-teller).
I liked the Star Wars universe but only from Episode 4 to 6 ... don't get me started on the prequels... read earlier posts/threads if you want my take on them.
:idunno: but that's just me. :asian:

On a personal reason, I have yet to be dissappointed when I read through the Lord of the Rings trilogy, or see the movies. Not once. I still walk away from the experience with a grin on my face and a sense of inspiration in my heart.

However, the Star Wars universe in the last five years has kind of let me down. For example, one word has essentially stripped out the sheer power and wonder of a key plot element of Star Wars and the universe it comprises.

Midichlorians.

Uuuuuuugh ... blech, blech, blech. Unclean, unclean.

I'm with you mcura. The force was explained in episodes 4-6 as a more spiritual thing than a symbionic pairing of microscopic beings parasiting in living hosts.
That took away the mysticism of the Force and the nobility of the Jedis. It stripped away the "concept" of the living soul.
Yoda explained it clearly to Luke in ESB: Life creates it, luminious beings are we, not this crude matter. Feel the force around you, yes in the in the trees, the rocks, yes, even between the land and the ship."
Kenobi also explained it to Luke in ANH: "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together."
Those explianations clearly spoke to me more than Quai-Gon's description to Anakin about tiny creatures living within our cells. I damned near walked out of the theater first time I saw TPM and that scene. Then the idea that Anakin had no biological father. I mean c'mon, just admit she got drunk and was date raped. Don't try to pass off a immaculate conception here!

 

[FearlessFreep]

I'm more inclined to believe that the Star Wars universe had indoor plumbing than the Middle-Earth universe, so if I had to choose one to *live* in....

 

[Tames D]

Hmmm... Star Wars I guess.