Retail Outlets that do not allow Concealed Weapons

[Lisa]

The distinction is kind of moot isn't it? Either your carrying or your not regardless of your skill at concealment. Granted the guy was a real idiot(he looked at me like I was out of my mind when I asked him to please take the gun back to his car). Keep in mind that most of the public's exposure to "concealed" weapons is through guys just like him not responsible, law abiding people like yourselves.
Also, If i'm robbed i'll hand over the money without a fuss and pull the silent alarm as soon as i can. I don't want to get in a gun battle over a few bucks(yes we do have a gun but by the time i tried to get it i would already be dead). We also used to have an employee who was also a LEO and he carried in plain sight. Yeah we never had a holdup but we also scared off a lot of customers that way too.
I don't think there is an answer that will suit everybody. So if you must carry then please try to keep it concealed properly.

The part of your statement that I bolded terrifies me. And this is better then some citizens are carrying concealed. There is seriously a gun there for you to use? Without any training? For anyone? And this is legal?????

Wow.

 

[buldog]

Two answers to that:

1) In my state leaving a firearm unattended in a vehicle is not legal. I have enough to worry about lugging my holster, Commander-sized 1911, at least one reload, cell phone, folder, pepper spray, wallet and keys without having to lug a trigger lock around with the whole mess.
Also, if I am seen taking it out and securing it in my vehicle, all's it takes is one troublemaking ***hole to call the cops and say "Oh, he pulled his gun on me" and there's a charge of brandishing, my permit pulled, my guns confiscated and who knows what kind of jail time.

2) the chucklehead who whipped his piece out in the store DESERVES to have his permit pulled and his guns confiscated. If you need for whatever reason to notify a clerk you are armed( say, if you are being fitted for a suit and want room for your holster) you simply tell them there is one consideration and take out and show them your PERMIT ONLY. Somebody sees your gun, that can become a charge of brandishing and there goes your permit at minimum.

Good points. I didn't know about the brandishing aspect of it. I like the part of showing only the permit.
Just goes to show that its the few idiots that ruin it for everybody else.

 

[buldog]

The part of your statement that I bolded terrifies me. And this is better then some citizens are carrying concealed. There is seriously a gun there for you to use? Without any training? For anyone? And this is legal?????

Wow.

Yeah, I wasn't too happy about it either. The owner has a loaded revolver with NO safety stashed in the office. I worked there for 2 yrs before I stumbled on it looking for a legal pad. As far as the legality of it i'm not sure, but a lot of mom and pop stores have weapons on the premises(if you ever watch those "amazing" videos on TV you'll notice the old man always runs out shooting AFTER the guy is running away).

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Yeah, I wasn't too happy about it either. The owner has a loaded revolver with NO safety stashed in the office. I worked there for 2 yrs before I stumbled on it looking for a legal pad. As far as the legality of it i'm not sure, but a lot of mom and pop stores have weapons on the premises(if you ever watch those "amazing" videos on TV you'll notice the old man always runs out shooting AFTER the guy is running away).

See now this is the one thing for which I will make an exception to my staunch pro-gun philosophy.

As much as I will say the right to be armed must never be taken from the law abiding, I will always qualify that with this one thing:

Never Arm An Untrained Person.

 

[Cruentus]

Yeah, I wasn't too happy about it either. The owner has a loaded revolver with NO safety stashed in the office. I worked there for 2 yrs before I stumbled on it looking for a legal pad. As far as the legality of it i'm not sure, but a lot of mom and pop stores have weapons on the premises(if you ever watch those "amazing" videos on TV you'll notice the old man always runs out shooting AFTER the guy is running away).

Dude, what you are experiencing is really irresponsible behavior. Leaving loaded guns lying around isn't even something you should do at home, let alone a business with untrained people all over the place.

All I have to say is don't let the irresponsible behaviors of a few color your opinion about CCW holders and carriers. A responsible person with a CCW would not whip his firearm out unannounced, and would not leave unloaded firearms around a store.

If you ever have the time or know a friend who shoots who is a RESPONSIBLE gun owner, I suggest you talk with him about gun safety and maybe go shooting with him a couple of times. You won't be disappointed, and this may help balance out your viewpoint a little. Your problem isn't really with those who are responsible and who carry concealed. Your problem is with irresponsible people who give the rest of us a bad image. I think that with these discussions you definitely need to distinguish between the 2.

Take Care,

C.

 

[Carol]

To Buldog's credit though, I think he did realize that...going by his answer to Andy....

Good points. I didn't know about the brandishing aspect of it. I like the part of showing only the permit.
Just goes to show that its the few idiots that ruin it for everybody else.

 

[KenpoTex]

When you see notices, do you boycott that facility? What do you believe is the reasoning behind the rules of these facilities?

Curious, I am.

I try to boycott any business that is posted. I'm a member of a forum for concealed-carry holders in my state. On the website we have a "Boycott list" of businesses that do not allow concealed-carry.
If I have to go somewhere that's posted (with the exception of gov. buildings and airports), I usually just ignore the sign...concealed means concealed. I have friends that not only know that I carry but know exactly where I carry my weapon and they can't see it. I'm not worried about someone else accidentally noticing.

as far as why businesses post these signs...it's because whomever is in charge is an idiot and doesn't realize that 1) law-abiding citizens who are armed is a good thing, and 2) that posting those signs puts them at greater risk because the criminals are not going to care about the sign and may actually target that business because there's less chance of encountering an armed citizen.

 

[jks9199]

Good point,

If an employee saw an unusual bulge in my waistline, and accused me of shoplifting, I would rather just show them the gun, and head out the door.

jks, how often do you guys get calls from people who overreact to concealed pistols carried legitimately?

Do you get any of the "This guy had a gun in my store, I want you to arrest him!" type of stuff?

There's not an easy way to answer that. Typically, a reasonably lawful person with a CCW is going to take one of two actions: they'll either comply with the signs, and thus won't be a problem, or, when confronted, they'll leave, making calling the cops unnecessary.

But, Virginia is a "shall issue" state for CCW, and it's also an open carry state. Lately, we've had deliberate incidents when people carrying openly go someplace, hoping to have a cop called. So... with some very narrow exceptions, you can carry a gun openly almost anywhere in Virginia. Of course, private property owners may declare guns unwelcome...

The other thing is that it's a very different question in different parts of Virginia. In the northern Virginia area, guns almost certainly cause a stir. But, in parts of southern (especally southwestern) Virginia... a gun carried openly won't be much of a issue at all.

I've only responded to a few "man with a gun calls" -- but I've encountered more guns, often legally carried. If you have a CCW, the key word is "CONCEALED." It shouldn't be immediately apparent -- and I shouldn't know about it.

 

[jks9199]

Two answers to that:

1) In my state leaving a firearm unattended in a vehicle is not legal. I have enough to worry about lugging my holster, Commander-sized 1911, at least one reload, cell phone, folder, pepper spray, wallet and keys without having to lug a trigger lock around with the whole mess.
Also, if I am seen taking it out and securing it in my vehicle, all's it takes is one troublemaking ***hole to call the cops and say "Oh, he pulled his gun on me" and there's a charge of brandishing, my permit pulled, my guns confiscated and who knows what kind of jail time.

2) the chucklehead who whipped his piece out in the store DESERVES to have his permit pulled and his guns confiscated. If you need for whatever reason to notify a clerk you are armed( say, if you are being fitted for a suit and want room for your holster) you simply tell them there is one consideration and take out and show them your PERMIT ONLY. Somebody sees your gun, that can become a charge of brandishing and there goes your permit at minimum.

Simply removing a gun from a concealed position or even from a holster is NOT the same as brandishing it. Brandishing generally requires that your actions reasonably put someone in fear of being shot. See, for example, VA Code 18.2-282. Of course, each state's laws are different -- but simply possessing something or even showing it doesn't automatically equal brandishing it.

With that said -- the idiot who pulled a gun out to try to fit it into a cigar box raises lots of concerns, and is probably not someone who should have a gun.

 

[Sukerkin]

I just wanted to say that having knowledgeable people on the forum, who can speak with experience and authority on issues like this, is, for someone like me who is from a very different culture, an invalubale resource :tup:.

That sentence needed a 'Complex structure' alert putting on it I think . A shorter re-write would be me saying "Thanks for the insights chaps and chapesses." .

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Simply removing a gun from a concealed position or even from a holster is NOT the same as brandishing it. Brandishing generally requires that your actions reasonably put someone in fear of being shot. See, for example, VA Code 18.2-282. Of course, each state's laws are different -- but simply possessing something or even showing it doesn't automatically equal brandishing it.

I'm talking about the People's Republic of Massachusettstan, don't forget.

 

[bydand]

I'm talking about the People's Republic of Massachusettstan, don't forget.

That's right, and they are not afraid to show the influences on the States firearm laws. The State troopers uniforms look like SS uniforms. (At least the did last time I knew.)

As for signs about carrying in the establishment; unless they pat me down, I'm not telling anybody. My Maine CCW is limited to only those places on the federal list of "do Not carry" and any prison in the State as well. When I first got my CCW here, I was used to Michigans (at that time) restrictive carry laws so I asked what restrictions applied. The Chief of Police gave me an odd look and told me I couldn't point it at a teller as I was making withdrawals. If the issuing authority doesn't put a restriction about carrying someplace, I don't even act like I see the sign. If they find out somehow and ask me to leave, I leave, simple.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Great comments by everyone.

 

[Grenadier]

I seriously wonder how many people ignore the request and carry anyways.

Every bad guy.

The incident at Virginia Tech was enough proof, that forbiddance of those who can lawfully carry concealed firearms, did nothing to stop Cho Seung Hui, who took advantage of the victim disarmament zone.


As for law abiding folks ignoring the signs, it depends on what state it is. Some states interpret this as basically saying that you can still carry, but if they catch you, you must leave the premises or face tresspass charges. Others interpret it as you become a criminal.

 

[arnisandyz]

I'm late coming in on this but...

I "try" to do the right thing and honor a individual's/company's wish to not allow CCW on their property by either not going in or removing my firearm...however, it sure is hard to see that posted sign sometimes with all the other clutter in the store windows (wink, wink).

Andy