Respect

[kingkong89]

who thinks that their is very little respect in some of the martial arts communitys now days, i have seen some who have little to no respect but there is a lot who still have great deals of respect. what do you think.:mst: :ultracool

 

[tellner]

The first question is, what do you mean by respect?

 

[exile]

who thinks that their is very little respect in some of the martial arts communitys now days, i have seen some who have little to no respect but there is a lot who still have great deals of respect. what do you think.:mst: :ultracool

The first question is, what do you mean by respect?

And the second question is, respect for whom (or what)?

 

[kidswarrior]

Oh sure, you cynical curmudgeons gang up on poor new guy. :lol2:

 

[IWishToLearn]

There is, however, a ton of egotistical "worship" being masked as respect by a lot of people who have no clue what they're doing.

 

[thardey]

Respect is shown differently in different cultures -- even sub-cultures in the US.

Where I am from, you show someone respect by either agreeing with them, or disagreeing with them to their face. You aren't rude about it, but if you don't agree with them, you ask them about it honestly, and give them the chance to defend their beliefs or actions.

Where Grandparents are from, you show respect by never confronting someone directly, but by first going to people who are influential in thier lives, (mother, sister, friend) and asking them about the disagreement, and letting them "moderate" between you.

(I've seen both kinds of respect regarding karate teachers.)

Here, you show respect by looking people in the eyes while they are talking. In Mexico, you show respect by looking down while they are talking.

Perhaps what you are seeing is not disrespect, but different ways to show respect in different schools and sub-cultures.

As for disrespectful individuals, they simply don't last long, because nobody will fork over the $$ or spend the time to learn something they don't respect.

 

[Xue Sheng]

who thinks that their is very little respect in some of the martial arts communitys now days, i have seen some who have little to no respect but there is a lot who still have great deals of respect. what do you think.:mst: :ultracool

The first question is, what do you mean by respect?

And the second question is, respect for whom (or what)?

I got nothing to add; I'm just a cynical curmudgeon and I had to back up my peeps. :mst: :uhyeah:

Actually I really do have a 3rd question here for you

Respect how; given, earned, expected, etc.?

 

[SideWinderGX]

respect is very important...but as iwishtolearn said, worshipping is different than respect.

ive seen both personally, and i definitely favor those who have respect over those who dont. if you can humble yourself and respect those who are higher up in authority, skill, and knowledge than you, you definintely have a strong head on your shoulders, and i dont really know how to put it haha....a way of giving those higher up than you a reward for practicing for so long and sharing that knowledge with you, and being a good role model. it goes the other way too...those older and wiser must respect the people that arent as knowledgeable, encouraging them to take after the higher ranks and makes the environment a friendlier place. it just strengthens the community overall when people have this kind of respect for each other.

hope i didnt ramble...i went back and added stuff like thrice. it was actually a hard question if you think about it.

 

[Shotochem]

There is, however, a ton of egotistical "worship" being masked as respect by a lot of people who have no clue what they're doing.

Nah....!!!! Never happens....

Hmmmmmm, ever been to a dojo where a bunch of Americans bow and prostrate themselves excessively and butcher the Japanese language while pretending to be Japanese???

-Marc-

 

[Adept]

Nah....!!!! Never happens....

Hmmmmmm, ever been to a dojo where a bunch of Americans bow and prostrate themselves excessively and butcher the Japanese language while pretending to be Japanese???

-Marc-

Heh, yeah. I was there for two weeks. I went back for the second week just to make sure I handn't imagined it!

 

[kidswarrior]

Respect is shown differently in different cultures -- even sub-cultures in the US.

Here, you show respect by looking people in the eyes while they are talking. In Mexico, you show respect by looking down while they are talking.

Perhaps what you are seeing is not disrespect, but different ways to show respect in different schools and sub-cultures.

I believe this is a real possibility, at least a part of the culprit. I've spent the last...well, many years working primarily with subsets within (or without) our mainstream culture in the US, and there are many, many ways people expect that respect should/will be shown (to them or by them). So, yeah, much room for cultural, generational, regional, and other kinds of misunderstanding.

As for disrespectful individuals, they simply don't last long, because nobody will fork over the $$ or spend the time to learn something they don't respect.

I find this, also. As soon as the shininess has worn off and they realize MA are work, they leave anyway. Kind of self-regulating.

 

[bluemtn]

who thinks that their is very little respect in some of the martial arts communitys now days, i have seen some who have little to no respect but there is a lot who still have great deals of respect. what do you think.:mst: :ultracool

Now... Do you mean from dojo (ang) to dojo(ang), no matter what affiliation, or do you mean Average Joe- who's only kick he knows is peg- leg? Or do you mean "either or- take it however you want?"

Now, school to school- I've only seen a TINY amount of disrespect coming from another school. They seemed to have nothing good to say about any given school within a 30 mile radius, whether it was truth or not. I've had someone try to tell me this school or that school isn't worth a hill of beans, told a few things about the instructors, etc., when in fact I've had an acquaintance with them. Now, I work in public- I run into a lot of people, and don't live in a crowded area... So, I've had the pleasure of meeting several instructors throughout my area, all with their own style, etc. Obviously, the person I mentioned, didn't know that I do or did, so didn't think I'd know any better.... But, that was the only "bad" experience I've had, and I've had quite a few candid conversations with quite a few others. I find it easier to respect someone that doesn't feel that it's necessary to talk down about others in such ways- martial arts related or not.

 

[kingkong89]

earned but to earn respect you have to give respect

 

[tellner]

I dunno about that. I've met people whose talent and skill I respected. A lot of them were truly reprehensible excuses for human beings.

 

[kidswarrior]

I dunno about that. I've met people whose talent and skill I respected. A lot of them were truly reprehensible excuses for human beings.

A conundrum, isn't it? I hate it when that happens.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I respect those with knowledge
I respect thiose who have been inthe arts 30 or more years
I respect those whi=o actualy teach not rip off their students
i respect those who ar not drunk at this moment

 

[exile]

I dunno about that. I've met people whose talent and skill I respected. A lot of them were truly reprehensible excuses for human beings.

A conundrum, isn't it? I hate it when that happens.

There are plenty of people like that, alas. Wagner was a horrible misogynist and anti-Semite, Carl Orff was a Nazi sympathizer and Herbert von Karajan was an actual Nazi (there is a documented photo of him in an SS uniform I've seen in a history journal), as was the philosopher Martin Heidegger. William Shockley, inventor of the transistor (and thus the grandfather of the modern electronic computer) was a eugenics nut who belived everyone of African descent to be racially inferior (this was long before Lucy and the tracing of mitchondrial lineages, but it wouldn't have mattered to WS, probably) The list of vicious hate-filled people includes plenty who were far from mediocre at what they did. It's so disappointing when you find that someone you really liked was a just another bigoted jerk like the rest of them...

 

[sholo86]

I understand respect as being humble and the acknowldgement of the other person's values whether it agrees with your own values or not.

I also believe the value of respect is taught and learned. When I see people being disrespectful, especially kids, the first thing that comes to my mind is "where are the parents". That is why MA instructors play a big part in instilling these good values in these kids because they may not be getting such education at home.

Now, if the instructor himself/herself does not have these values, then I feel sorry for the students...

 

[TraditionalTKD]

I respect:
Hard work. Someone who is willing to put the sweat and legwork in, not just stand back and watch others do it.
Integrity. Someone who is who they say they are.
Honor. Honor is more important than technique or rank. You can't buy honor. Honor is earned over a long period of practicing the above two.

Having said that, I know several people who I respect as fellow Masters, but not as human beings. I will defer to the rank, but not always the person holding the rank.

 

[Xue Sheng]

There are plenty of people like that, alas. Wagner was a horrible misogynist and anti-Semite, Carl Orff was a Nazi sympathizer and Herbert von Karajan was an actual Nazi (there is a documented photo of him in an SS uniform I've seen in a history journal), as was the philosopher Martin Heidegger. William Shockley, inventor of the transistor (and thus the grandfather of the modern electronic computer) was a eugenics nut who belived everyone of African descent to be racially inferior (this was long before Lucy and the tracing of mitchondrial lineages, but it wouldn't have mattered to WS, probably) The list of vicious hate-filled people includes plenty who were far from mediocre at what they did. It's so disappointing when you find that someone you really liked was a just another bigoted jerk like the rest of them...

Oh now if you want to through reality into it, what are you some sort of HEROIC Cynical Curmudgeons.

who thinks that their is very little respect in some of the martial arts communitys now days,

I will answer this in a way that will undoubtedly make me look very old, but that's ok.

You are right, things are not what they use to be, and it was very different when I started training back in the Stone Age. But this means that in some cases it is a bad thing and in others a good thing.

There was an Aikido school near me way back when (early 70s) where the Sifu sat in front of the class and did absolutely nothing but stare and shout out orders. He was claiming all sorts of training background and having his most senior student, who had trained with someone else previously, did all of the teaching.

My Jujitsu teacher knew about him and we were all pretty certain he was a fraud. But due to the claims he had made about his background none of his students would question him and all pretty much showed him respect based on his claims (this is bad). And my Jujitsu teacher did not feel it was his place to do anything, it wasn’t Jujitsu.

This Aikido school did close down rather abruptly however. It was rumored that someone of a real Aikido lineage found out and paid him a visit (rumor was Mitsunari Kanai went to “talk” to him) but it was a rumor. (this would be good)

But my Sensei for Jujitsu was very skilled and we all showed him respect but on occasion there would be someone who questioned it and he generally let it go until they challenged him or crossed the line (one guy actually tried to slap him in the face in front of the class for no reason other than he felt like it) and they it was sparing time and he could back up his background (this is good). today however if you do something like this you will get sued so respect may have been earned but that does not necessarily mean that some idiot will give respect where it is due (this is bad). And this also earns that some idiot will not sit in front of class claim mastery when he does not have it. However if he does his students may eventually question him however it is highly unlikely that a master of the art will show up and "talk" to you. (this is both good and bad)

There is currently a school near me that the teacher is from China and does have a Wushu background but he has put money before his art and his students fully believe he is a master of 100 different styles and show him respect because of his claims. However one of the things he now teaches and claims lineage to is Chen. He did learn some Chen in China but not the stuff he now teaches and claims to have leered fro the Chen family. He did get a visit from a Chen family member who did tell him to stop. But as Mr. Chen said, I can tell him to stop, but this is America and beyond that there is really nothing I can do... but he did say...if this where China it would be a completely different thing.