Repeating downward knife thrust defense?

[arnisador]

I can't remember where I saw/read the statistic, but it was a VERY high percentage (over 75%) of knife attacks involved a heat of the moment type thing

I think that's why the U.K. physicians want knife tips dulled on large kitchen cutting knives--so many are domestic assault or otherwise unplanned attacks.

I was thinking of the street mugger situation--he's likely learned a thing or two from a friend/gangbanger/cellmate, andif that's a thing you don't know how to handle, it's one thing too many.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Defending against a knife wielding person while in Empty hands is apart of Kali training though isnt it?

Knife vs Empty Hands
Knife vs knife
etc..etc..etc

Kali trains in many different situations based off the weapon type correct? Thats the impression I've gotten from my learnings that Ive experienced.

Example: The Bourne movie where he picks up a pen and defends himself vs another knife. Or another scene where he's empty handed while defending against the guy who's wielding a knife.

What im asking is that Kali does train in the different situations based off what a persons wielding whether it be an edged weapon or empty hands?

The FMA I train and teach covers different situations and weapons including weapons of opportunity. I always try to have a pen on me. You know in case I need to give someone my phone number or get a phone number. But I also have used an unopened tuna fish can for self-defense as it was in the parking lot on the ground and available for me to pick up.

 

[jks9199]

I think that's why the U.K. physicians want knife tips dulled on large kitchen cutting knives--so many are domestic assault or otherwise unplanned attacks.

I was thinking of the street mugger situation--he's likely learned a thing or two from a friend/gangbanger/cellmate, andif that's a thing you don't know how to handle, it's one thing too many.

Uh... how is dulling the tip of the knife going to prevent someone from being hurt? Unless it's REALLY rounded or they put a ball on the end like some of the European practice daggers... IT'S STILLING GOING TO BE BOTH A CUTTING AND STABBING IMPLEMENT!

(And what about that whole cutting issue, anyway? Or are they going to round off the edge too? )

 

[MJS]

To comment on a few recent posts. We can look at pretty much any art and see weapon defense techniques. However, and I have heard what I'm about to say from a few other people, so I personally place alot on this.....if its not a weapon based art, it won't be as good as one that is. In other words, while Kenpo has knife and club techs., they, IMHO, don't even come close to what I see in Arnis. There are grappling defenses, but again, they don't touch what I see in BJJ. We're talking about arts that touch on punching, kicking, kata, various SD, etc., vs an art that focuses on a given area. Sure, Arnis has punch and kick defense, but its a weapon based art, that is the primary focus.

As far as other arts from other countries....I'm sure Silat has good weapon work, but if there are no Silat schools in my area, I don't have anything to base my opinion on, and I'm not going to rely on youtube to form an opinion of something. So, if there are numerous FMA schools vs. having no Silat, Systema, etc. schools around, that is what I base my opinion on. Perhaps if I saw some of the other schools, it may change my mind but until then, I have to go with what I see and am most familiar with.

 

[arnisador]

Uh... how is dulling the tip of the knife going to prevent someone from being hurt? Unless it's REALLY rounded or they put a ball on the end like some of the European practice daggers... IT'S STILLING GOING TO BE BOTH A CUTTING AND STABBING IMPLEMENT!

(And what about that whole cutting issue, anyway? Or are they going to round off the edge too? )

Lots of stories on that here, but for example:

Doctors' kitchen knives ban call
A&E doctors are calling for a ban on long pointed kitchen knives to reduce deaths from stabbing.

 

[joeygil]

In my country if the police catch you with a knife on you , chances are you will be going to jail.

But Crocodile Dundee had a huge knife! I guess he was also a bit of a poacher...

 

[mook jong man]

But Crocodile Dundee had a huge knife! I guess he was also a bit of a poacher...

he might be ok if he could prove he had it for work purposes.

 

[OCman44]

In an Empty hand fight where you'd defend yourself from an empty hand attacker, How effective are the defense techniques in kali? I know Empty hands taught last when it comes to Kali so Im assuming the Empty hand techniques are similar to that if you were wielding a weapon only with a few minor changes to the techniques themselves.

I was watching some Silat/Suffian videos and the empty hand techniques looked very similar to that of escrima(Im not sure if Suffian silat is different from Kali Silat/Escrima) and when the instructor had his students throwing punches at him it seemed as if empty hand techniques could be very effective in real scenarios in a fist fight. However Im not sure since Ive yet to experience one. For those of you who have experienced a fight when empty handed, how did your techniques do vs the attacker?

 

[suicide]

:jediduel:

 

[MJS]

In an Empty hand fight where you'd defend yourself from an empty hand attacker, How effective are the defense techniques in kali? I know Empty hands taught last when it comes to Kali so Im assuming the Empty hand techniques are similar to that if you were wielding a weapon only with a few minor changes to the techniques themselves.

I was watching some Silat/Suffian videos and the empty hand techniques looked very similar to that of escrima(Im not sure if Suffian silat is different from Kali Silat/Escrima) and when the instructor had his students throwing punches at him it seemed as if empty hand techniques could be very effective in real scenarios in a fist fight. However Im not sure since Ive yet to experience one. For those of you who have experienced a fight when empty handed, how did your techniques do vs the attacker?

How effective are the empty hand technqiues? Very! The limb destructions and locks are, IMHO, very effective. Add in the elbows and forearm hits, along with all of the low line shots, and you have a pretty effective tool set.

 

[Sandstorm]

In an Empty hand fight where you'd defend yourself from an empty hand attacker, How effective are the defense techniques in kali? I know Empty hands taught last when it comes to Kali so Im assuming the Empty hand techniques are similar to that if you were wielding a weapon only with a few minor changes to the techniques themselves.

I was watching some Silat/Suffian videos and the empty hand techniques looked very similar to that of escrima(Im not sure if Suffian silat is different from Kali Silat/Escrima) and when the instructor had his students throwing punches at him it seemed as if empty hand techniques could be very effective in real scenarios in a fist fight. However Im not sure since Ive yet to experience one. For those of you who have experienced a fight when empty handed, how did your techniques do vs the attacker?

The beauty of Kali is it's variety and adaptability. As MJS says, you can use pretty much any application and use it effectively. The footwork and transitions through flows and entries is one of the best systems I've practiced. Kali is certainly a fantastic art for unarmed combat, as well as armed.
My advice to you would be to just go, join a club and get stuck in. As a biginner, there are always questions and your eagerness for answers will be great. As you grow with the art, those questions will become more in quantity and more frequent, but you will learn patience and greater understanding. Trust me, just go, join a class, and have fun!

 

[joeygil]

In an Empty hand fight where you'd defend yourself from an empty hand attacker, How effective are the defense techniques in kali?

I'd say it comes down to the school and the instructor (heard that before). For example, the school my sister went to emphasized tournaments. They were very good at it, an won lots of championships. But they didn't emphasize (from what I saw) much empty hand stuff - they even discouraged grabbing the weapon hand, as it's against tournament rules. So in that case, I don't put a lot of stock in empty hand defense from the way that school was instructing (which is often different from the full body of knowledge of the instructor).

Other places don't do tournaments at all, and emphasize the combative aspect over the sport aspect.

I'm not making a judgement call on which is "right" - they're just different.

 

[joeygil]

Back to the original topic.

I feel like an idiot, as the most obvious counters would probably come from the hubad-lubad drills. I haven't tried them in the context of a pumping action, but the angle seems about right.

What do you guys think? Maybe not the full 3 count pattern, but the single outside forearm shield to pass motion (don't know what it's called).

 

[arnisador]

With some footwork, that could work! But the fact that he'll withdraw the arm to strike again is the next issue.