Reality of fighting
- Thread starter Jake104
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Cyriacus
Senior Master
Now were back to these Videos. Im not using any Tactics here - But you seem to be convinced im unable to comprehend a word you're saying.
Id repeat myself about the numerous flaws of both videos, but i doubt youd listen.
Also, i did not use the word Comply, at any point.
And what part of "Fights are Dirty, and the only Rule should be Awareness. Awareness of Weapons, Numbers, and Positioning" did you not read earlier? I already said that, and you went right over it. Or did you think i meant the Math equation you were doing earlier today?
I did not assault you. All i EVER said about being hit in the head was that the Second Guy, even if he attacked the guy first, would still have had to deal with the one to his side. And assuming he beat the first guy right away, he would then need to turn to the other one. So say he performed a circular motion to put himself in that position - Thats a whole other discussion.
I never once attacked you.
But yet, youve pretty much shovelled insults onto me.
And about the only criticism ive made is regarding a slight lack of Respect on your part.
And i said you missed the point about "Going to Jail".
Did i say, "Oh no, you might be charged with something!" No, i said that legally, you would be at fault.
Before that, you accused me of "Talking out my ***".
Then you said "I'm sorry your the authority on fighting cause you WItnessed bar fights lol..Wait is this fanastytalk.com. Difference is I'm not pretending to fight. I fight. The fights in the videos arent great fights they are unfair fights . You are missing the point! Fights aren't fair where I come from."
To which i said;
"Im sorry your not the authority on fights either, because youve been in a few hostile encounters, and suddenly became a Guru on the topic. Tis reminiscent of many MMA Practitioners. Be retrospective, would you.
But i guess its a Fantasy, when people are put in ICUs over nothing more than petty squabbles.
My main point is, that in Video 1: He handles the situation Miserably. In Video 2: He handles the situation Miserably.
Now, assuming the topic is Fairness of fights now; So be it.
Fights are Dirty, and the only Rule should be Awareness. Awareness of Weapons, Numbers, and Positioning. Anything else is a means to an ultimate end.
You seem to be assuming that i know nothing of which i speak - When making that statement is also narrowing the window for the definition of Fighting, especially on the Street. If Fights are Fair where you come from, so be it. People still get as badly hurt. "
Now, if you dont start seeing things more clearly, then i will have no need to further waste time here.
But before you try and say that me not wanting to debate this further is not wanting to discuss it because im some kind of coward;
I shall simply say, that i have already clearly stated my views, as have many others here.
If you dont like them, perhaps consider being less arguementative. Because im more than willing to debate any opinion. If i wasnt, i wouldnt have partaken in the conversation in the first place.
Id like to here some Other Peoples ideas of this Conversation, since you will likely never see that at no point did i "Assault" you, whilst you were busy "Assaulting" my own Knowledge.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
I tried to move on. I tried to agree to disagree. You never criticised my first post, but you seemed to go right at criticising me pretty consistently afterwards.
I never said you couldnt hit a guy when he was in your personal space - I said that it may not be the best option.
But in the interests of all concerned, if youd like to move on, so be it. We could have done that at any point whatsoever.
oaktree
Master of Arts
The video happen on Miami beach and it looks like in front of a club. I think drinking and ego's played a role in the fight considering most fights that happen at night on the beach are from the clubs and not from those who actually live there.
I avoid going to clubs and being out late at night and I am aware of my surroundings so I avoid quite alot of dangerous encounters.
My last encounter was when someone tried to steal my bike in front of me(he did not know it was mine hahaha) I politely said "that's a nice bike." He said "yes it is." I then said "You know it is so nice that's why I paided $100.00 for it." He was so surprised at the way I handled the situation that he apologized haha.
Ice T once said in an interview" The most dangerous people are the one's who really want to be nice and you mess with them and they are pissed, the one who acts tough all the time has issues and they get killed every afternoon." I had to clean it up a little bit
The second video I have seen sucker punches happen quite often and this goes back to 3 points 1.Don't go where problems and bad people are. 2.Know your surroundings 3. Do not start problems unless you have a way to solve them.
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OP
OP
Jake104
Black Belt
The quote from Ice T is correct. It's the guys who are loud and aggressive who are usually the ones with something to prove and are mentally weak. That was my point about my friend. He would be very calm and that would counter the other guys aggression at least for a moment and just enough to land his shot. In Kung Fu terms, counter hard with soft. He didn't always hit people it was depending on the situation and if the fight was enviable. Is it right or wrong, legal or illegal? I guess that's up to you or the courts to decide. One thing I can say is, it worked and people should be aware of dirty tricks like that and what was shown in the videos. Plus a trick like that may save your life and allow you to live another day. Even if that next day is answering to assault charges.
Jake
Jake
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Clip #1: Not sure why, given the number of people around, these 2 idiots choose to roll around on the ground, but to each his own I guess. How would I have dealt with that? Well, the area looked like it was in a bar/club district, so right there, given the fact that I dont frequent bars/clubs, I probably wouldn't have been in this situation, but if I was, I'd do my best to keep it standing. Even from the clinch, there's alot that can be done. In other words, just because you're in that position, doesnt mean you have to turn it into a grappling match.
Clip #2: Looks like there was a group of people yet the guy in the white tank was only focused on the guy in front of him. What about being aware of your surroundings?
I know, its easy to armchair QB these types of scenarios, but alot of it is common sense. I'd be willing to bet that in both of these clips, what led up to the fighting was something stupid that probably could've been avoided in the first place.
My thoughts exactly! Some will say that you'll be the aggressor and in the wrong if you hit first. I disagree. If someone wants to talk, yell, scream, swear, whatever, at me, fine, knock your socks off. You can do it from a disatance. But once you start advancing towards me, well, nothing good could possibly come of that. LOL. Sorry, I'm not waiting for this guy to get so close, that I can smell what he had for lunch. I'm taking that as an aggressive action.
1) Be that as it may, I'm not going to wait until this guy a) gets that close to me and b) risk getting hit. Sorry, I'll take my chances, and pre-empt him with my own strike. If people think that running around, trying to avoid everything is the way to go, they're crazy. I'm not interested in playing a game of run around the parking lot while I try to talk my way out.
As for being hit...yes, anythings possible, but as I said, alot comes down to awareness.
If this was in fact 'reality' and not some staged BS, then, IMHO, none of the people depicted in those clips, impressed me in the least! I saw nothing but a bunch of untrained, no skilled *******s, who're trying to act tough. Anyone with an ounce of skill and some serious training, IMHO, shouldn't have a problem dealing with these clowns.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
Thats kind of my point - My idealogy is that his Positioning is what was atrocious. If he was better positioned, he could have better pre-emptively attacked him, and been in a better Position to deal with other potential Opponents.
I never said that being charged with assault was a bad thing - What i more meant was that in those exact circumstances, and positions, attacking first would put you at a disadvantage, and then when the other guy perhaps takes you out, hes the Hero who saved his mate from some guy picking fights. The Winner tells the Tale, and the Police listen to the Losers. Then the Courts sort it out.
Ok, I may've misread your post.
Just to clarify, I assume we're talking about the 2nd clip. I took the guy in the white tank to be the aggressor. It seemed to me, and I may be wrong, but the others that were around, were either just bystanders watching or friends of the other guy. With the way the guy in the tank was walking and holding his hands, I'm shocked that other guy didn't lay him out. LOL.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
It wouldnt matter either way - It seems to me that White Top was provoked, but either way; If the other guy was a bystander, which i doubt, since bystanders down usually punch someone out because they were shouting, he could have taken out either one, and they wouldve been none the wiser. And if he was 'helping', then whichever one attacked, he would have struck to end the conflict.Ok, I may've misread your post.
Whichever side he was on, it would have played out the same way.
Assuming the other guy is the defender, he was still poorly positioned to deal with the situation himself.
So, assuming the other person who came in was preemptively ending the situation, he also handled it poorly. What if the guy saw him, and did something? What if he had friends of his own? What if he had a weapon? There are variables, certainly.
But then, i doubt any fight wouldve actually taken place. The guy in the White Top was aggressive, but more in an assertive than hostile way. And the other Gent wasnt exactly being passive. And seemed to welcome without hesitation when his friend came out of nowere and punched the guy out, implying that they may not be the most upstanding citizens.
Like Video 1, not enough information; But still terrible examples of 'Fighting'
And ultimately, the group attacked him, and seemed to be sorrounding him. Adding to the concept of "Perhaps not the most Upstanding Citizens". But then, he probably wasnt either.
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