realistic self-defense

RoninPimp said:
-Self talk is a huge part of Sports Psycology. I feel it overlaps a lot with SD psycology. That's one of benefits of combat sport competition. MMA is at the top of that food chain, but the nerves and butterflys before a golden gloves boxing match or BJJ tournament are closely related imo. I would say they are degrees of the same feelings. Competition with unknown oponents is way more nerve racking that sparring with the same old partners. Though not nearly at the level of a violent encounter for real.
Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about - too many of us get caught up in our techniques - and let's be honest, while they've all got something to offer in a bust-up, they still all contain inherent limitations which means all of our systems become cumulative totals of thise limitations [when viewed negatively]. But that's not the point, we'd need to cease the negativity with regard to our own techniques and accept their implicit worth. That's the first point. The second -and more important- is our "self talk" as you put it. This for me always has been the differentiating factor.

Self talk conjures in my head something a little counselling-groupy to me though. I'm all for the NLP approach but it has to be done in the context of SD. I try to relate recall of those life-and-death situations [and as I say I'm talking life and death without the benefit of hindsight]. I'm sure we've all got caught in these situations throughout our lives.

Fair enough, all this may sound a bit new-age but I like to think of it as radical ;) Discovering it was something of an epiphany for me, hehe. Seriously, give it a go: spend a moment recalling such a situation. We've all had them, I mentioned some upthread: right from the simplest losing your mom in the store as a kid through choking, being hit and knocked down by a car and falling off ladders through to being glassed, stabbed, shot, whatever. I don't believe it's the objective seriousness of the situation but rather the subjective, "I'm gonna die here," response. If you've had any of these I'm willing to bet the visual, auditory and physiological memory has been ultra-clearly branded into your subconscious forever. If you've got it, pay particular heed to how you resolved the situation *within yourself* physically - I mean you're still here, you must have pulled through right? That's the key - how did you cope, how did you control the overwhelming adrenal rush, maybe you were wet with your own blood perhaps or thought, My god, is that my bone, that shouldn't be there... You get the idea. How did you curb the panic, what did you do to focus, what became important [severe stress has a phenomenal way to clear the mind]. Once you've got to there, hold the sensation and at all times remind yourself that you did in fact crack this b**ch and survive to tell.

The lynchpin of the theory is to be able to recall the control of this situation if and when you need it to harness your physical responses for a no-messing, real damage fight.

For me, the physiological recall: elevated HR [I've measured], retained muscle memories and coping mechanisms can be staggering. It's self-hypnosis or NLP by any other name but it's a surer way of mimicking your own response to the genuine defensive fight. Couple this with a little visualization, a little positive self talk and our hard won techniques, and this is how I believe we move towards becoming truly good life and self-defending artists as opposed to truly good in-house fighters.

I haven't expounded on this previously so I'm surely interested in any opinions. I'm just attempting to give a way to produce a positive outcome to a notion [the impossibility of adequately training for real world SD] which is too often tied in its own complexities. Though at the day's end, I'm still for getting out and "socializing" with one's street brethren.

Respects!
 
bushidomartialarts said:
though i imagine special forces do differently. anybody out there can speak to that?

When I was in SF, we did lots of WWII style combatives for our h to h. Had a few seminars in different things as well.

Jeff
 
JeffJ said:
When I was in SF, we did lots of WWII style combatives for our h to h. Had a few seminars in different things as well.

Jeff
-More info please! Who did the seminars? Still got copies of curriculum by chance?
 
RoninPimp said:
-More info please! Who did the seminars? Still got copies of curriculum by chance?

Ok, let me find my Wayback Machine!lol. The hand to had we trained in looked a lot like the Sykes/Fair bairn/Applegate combatives. I'm pretty sure it was taken from them. And why not? Good stuff in there. I know I used to see what they said was a FM for SF h to h in paladin press, have no idea if it's the real thing or not though. I'd have to go through a lot of boxes to see if I have a copy.

As far as the seminars go, some were crap. Probably did about 10 or so of them. Two really stand out in my mind for their excellence. Spent a week working with an Aikido instructor. He even went out on a little exercise with us. Really good practical technique as well. The other one was some FMA practitioner. He's who got me interested in FMA in the first place. Too bad I can't get to any instructors 'cause of my job.

I wish I could remember more details, but as of this month, it's been ten(sorry, eleven) years since I was medically retired. I will do some poking around and see if I can find that FM. Not even sure if I ever had a copy of it though.

Oh, and a comment. I've looked through the new h to h FM the Army has. It's leaps and bounds better than what they had before. But the people who put it together don't seem to realize that when the soldier would need that he'd have a ****-load of gear on him. For years, h to h combat for the line units has been more of a fitness/esprit de corps thing. Most who really want to learn effective h to h find instruction on their own.

Jeff

(edit for spelling and content. It's been elevn years this month, not ten)
 
Hello, Watching the video...these guys are only acting. On E-bay..you can order..video/cds....on real fights. Most of them...all out anything goes....most guys get tired after a while and the fight ends. There are some..whew...great action.

When you see training/sparring fight....one thing...when these people in a real fight...looks slopply...but most fights are none stop..any kind of blows!

How do you train for a real street fight? ....one way is to do it? ...Aloha
 
bushidomartialarts said:
problem: training for real street self-defense is nigh-impossible.

MMA don't train all the way because it's against the rules, TMA can't train all the way because people would get maimed.

the harder your train, the fewer 'killer shots' you get to use, otherwise your partner has to take three weeks off to heal.

so what's the solution? anybody got some good drills or methods? or even just whacky ideas?

Equipment of some sort is going to be necessary, unless one can afford to take time off from work to recover from the injuries we may sustain. Of course, how much gear you used is up to the people doing the training. Taking the Dog Bros. for example, that would be a good example of some hard contact with minimal gear.

Doing this type of training is certainly nothing new, but its often neglected during training. There are suits/gear out there that is not bulky and can provide enough protection to avoid serious injury.

Mike
 
samurai69 said:

Your first link has no connection to WWII combatives, despite what they market. The wolfe brothers have a good system, based on hapkido, wrestling and boxing for the blows, but there is no Fairbairn connection. They claim that boxing was the basis of what was taught at Camp X, yet the first H2H instructor was a wrestler, and there are many copies floating around of the sylabus taught by Fairbairn and his cadre of instructors where they caution against teaching a new recruit in using a closed fist. they do say if a man has previus training, work with it.
 
"Get Tough" and "Hands off" (SD for women, but still great techniques) are great books by Fairbairn. I think Applegate wrote a book called Close Combat Files. Haven't looked through that one, but I should. A book that goes deeply into the psychology of combat (warfighting though, not really a SD book) is "On Combat" by Lt.Col. Grossman. I think there has been a recent reprinting of that.

The techniques in the Fairbairn books probably will look familiar to most MA practitioners.

Jeff
 
frank raud said:
Your first link has no connection to WWII combatives, despite what they market. The wolfe brothers have a good system, based on hapkido, wrestling and boxing for the blows, but there is no Fairbairn connection. They claim that boxing was the basis of what was taught at Camp X, yet the first H2H instructor was a wrestler, and there are many copies floating around of the sylabus taught by Fairbairn and his cadre of instructors where they caution against teaching a new recruit in using a closed fist. they do say if a man has previus training, work with it.

Just some pointers in the right direction ....... thats all :)

WWII style combatives for our h to h.
 

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