Real Tae Kwon Do

[Marginal]

not really

and thats ok, but the problem is, that one extreem (the NON WTF/KKW) can do sport OR SD

the other extreem "for the most part" only does ONE, that being sport.

I understand what you're saying, and there is plenty of goofy stuff floating around. In general though, most of it is recognizable TKD. (I qualify this with the following: You could probably jump into most classes regardless of org with little problem.)

IMO, a lot of time's blown on folks busy playing "who's better". Better's accomplished via action, it's directly controllable by every single person that gets on the floor. Every single time they train/teach. If you want better, work for it. Orgs can help or hinder this, but only to a degree since they can't be everywhere, and their actual oversight is usually slight. Why worry about worse? It's always going to be out there.

 

[BrandonLucas]

I would personally rather have one blanket org than several different orgs in which the forms are drastically different and the emphasis is on either sport or SD.

I would like that scenerio, but, unfortunately, things just aren't playing out that way. It would be a huge mess if someone tried to bring the organizations together under one ruleset...I realize that now. You would have to have the requirements for Blackbelt all be the same, so you would definitely have people with non-legit blackbelts (not that their skill wouldn't be verifiable, but they would have to retest under the new requirements of the new organization...and possibly have to learn a whole new cirriculum).

The fact of the matter is that the organizations have already been seperated...I really don't think there's any good way to correct the changes. All I can really offer is that maybe both orgs should provide information for new students about how they differ from one another.

If the KKW is going to fully embrace sport TKD, then they should provide literature about how sport TKD is different than SD TKD. I think that way, if a student decides that he/she wants to compete in the tournement circuit, they understand that what they're learning to compete is not going to be the same as what they would learn to protect themselves.

If ITF students are not going to be allowed to compete in the Olympics, then they should provide literature explaining that a student has the right to compete in tournements, but not the Olympics.

Even if the information that I listed above is incorrect, the fact still remains that it should be made public knowledge that both organizations need to be clear as to what they offer and emphasize in the art. I really think that would cut down on a lot of this "My TKD is better than your TKD" crap.

I just wish everyone would keep in mind that it's not the art that's superior, it's the student.

 

[terryl965]

I find the different response to the question, at best confusing. But I believe we are back to the starting point of what TKD really is. A combat system or a Self Defense system or the last for health and sport.

 

[YoungMan]

I would postulate that Taekwondo can be compared to a religion like Christianity. Like Christianity, Taekwondo has several competing main bodies, and numerous sub denominations.
Claiming that you don't practice "real" Taekwondo if you are affiliated and certified through the Kukkiwon is akin to saying that a Catholic is not truly Christian because he/she does not follow your brand of Christianity. Do you realize how many people have died throughout history because of that attitude?
There are many flavors of Taekwondo, but the basic core and root is the same. Saying someone does not truly practice Taekwondo because they don't follow YOUR version of it is absurd.
And I agree with Miles. Point out to me where the ROK or the Kukkiwon ever declared a monopoly on the name Taekwondo or declared their version the one true version. Gen. Choi, however, has been quoted as saying that the WTF does not practice true Taekwondo.

 

[bluekey88]

I don't see where these categories (Sport, SD, Fitness)have to be mutually exclsusive. Sure, there are plenty of schools that focus on one over the others, and there are plenty of schools that don't do any of them well. That's a problem with a given school...not TKD.

Here's the thing. I'm a KKW/WTF guy...why? because when I signed up for that first TKD class...I chose a school based on the instructor and what I thought my son (and later myself) could learn from him. I didn't know about WTF, ITf or any of it...and I was a very experienced martial artsits at that time (just not an experienced TKD'ist). I get a bit defensive...I bristle as it were when I am called EVIL. When I am told that I cannot defend myself because all I do is SPORT. Basically, that BS is just downright disrespectful and totally diosregards all the hard work I've done, am doing and will continue to do in the future.

I do engage in rthe sproting aspects of WTF TKD. I'm an assistant coach on our competition team and put in lots of extra hours training these young athletes to compete locally and nationally. None of them will be goign to the olympics. Yes, for comeptition I say they should spar hands down (ONLY in competition). I also train hard to do what they do...the extra sparring (limited ruleset though it may be) and he extra trainign has improved my fitness (strength, speed, endurance and flexibility). I'm probably at my healthiest I've ever been due to this sport training...and y'know what? I'm better able to defend myself. My footwork, speed and improved endurance garauntee I'll do bette r in a fight now than i would have before I notched up my training. Sure, I could have done the improved training wihtout the sprot...but heck, the sport is fun and that kind of reinforcement has spurred me on to do the unfun extra hardwork.

I train primarily for SD. yes, in KKW school that's what i do. We have a set SD curriculum that goes all the way through 3rd dan. Primarily one step punch sparring and one step self defense moves...we also teach grappling. I work that stuff hard and when i trian others (especially the kids) I don't let them get away with weak technqiues. Furthermore, basedon hte forms based Sd stuff from Mr. o'neil, Mr. Anslow and others...I';ve gotten the go ahead to put together and teach a seminar on poomse based self-defense.

So, You see....my regular training encompasses all three aspects of TKD...at what is often branded a one dimensional organization. But, y'know I'm evil so it's best if you just ignore that as I'll lead you astray down the wrong path or something...I dunno.

Bottom line, old school TKD is what one does when they train hard. A lot of people don't...and I think that has always been the case. We (those of us who train hard, who are really invested) tend to look at things from a scewed perspective. Nothing's wrong with that, but keep in mind 90% of the rest of the populace thinks were nuts.

Peace,
Erik

 

[miguksaram]

Let's put one more thing in perspective here. Without knowing anyone's affiliation to anything, if we were to put TF, Terry, Exile, CT, Young, myself and others on a mat and then say go train. All this debate you see here goes out the door and all you get a bunch of weird people in funny looking pajamas jumping around and having a good time doing martial arts. My point here, and it has been said before, regardless what history you subscribe to, in the long run it doesn't improve you skills. Just a quick random thought prior to my coffee.

 

[exile]

Let's put one more thing in perspective here. Without knowing anyone's affiliation to anything, if we were to put TF, Terry, Exile, CT, Young, myself and others on a mat and then say go train. All this debate you see here goes out the door and all you get a bunch of weird people in funny looking pajamas jumping around and having a good time doing martial arts. My point here, and it has been said before, regardless what history you subscribe to, in the long run it doesn't improve you skills. Just a quick random thought prior to my coffee.

I can't help picturing the lot of us out there—none of us having had any caffeine yet—looking groggy and kind of irritable and not quite in balance yet... in those very odd-looking (when you come to think of it) pajamas... it's really hysterical!

Someone take a picture of that group and show it to a random bunch of people on the street and just try to convince them that we're just normal folks as well... :lol:

 

[Miles]

I find the different response to the question, at best confusing. But I believe we are back to the starting point of what TKD really is. A combat system or a Self Defense system or the last for health and sport.

Why can't it be all that and more?

 

[miguksaram]

I find the different response to the question, at best confusing. But I believe we are back to the starting point of what TKD really is. A combat system or a Self Defense system or the last for health and sport.

It is everything you just said. However, it is up to the individual instructor to teach all of its aspects. There in lies the problem. Some instructors love the sport, so they are constantly training that part. Some love just SD so that is what they push. Perhaps the solution is to have instructors be more well rounded in what they are teaching.

 

[miguksaram]

I can't help picturing the lot of us out there—none of us having had any caffeine yet—looking groggy and kind of irritable and not quite in balance yet... in those very odd-looking (when you come to think of it) pajamas... it's really hysterical!

Someone take a picture of that group and show it to a random bunch of people on the street and just try to convince them that we're just normal folks as well... :lol:

Sorry, we passed normal the first day we stepped onto a mat.

 

[exile]

It is everything you just said. However, it is up to the individual instructor to teach all of its aspects. There in lies the problem. Some instructors love the sport, so they are constantly training that part. Some love just SD so that is what they push. Perhaps the solution is to have instructors be more well rounded in what they are teaching.

I agree, and this gets at the tricky part of the OP question—what we mean by 'reality'. Clearly, anything that really exists out there is part of reality. When we talk about something being real, though, we usually have in mind some notion of basicness, something to do with the foundations of whatever it is we're discussing. And that is a very dicey thing to try to pin down in the case of something as diverse and multisided as the MAs, which have not only a 'factual' side but a symbolic side as well. Us all out there on the floor training, as per migusaram's great image, is going to put the spotlight on the bare-bones factual content of what we do; but for both practitioners and non-practitioners, there is a heavy symbolic burden that their MA carries, like a huge three-dimensional dynamic version of the ink-blot test that used to be so popular with psychologists as probes. And it's not easy for us to distinguish that aspect of it from the common technical core that we all have to do to get reasonably good at our art. So when the question of what is 'real' comes up, you get a lot of conflicting responses, many of them probably seemingly inconsistent—but probably not really so. That great little parable of the blind men and the elephant comes to mind—

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!/​

Sorry, we passed normal the first day we stepped onto a mat.

Yes, and now it's way too late to go back! :erg: