Real challenge fight

[fighterman]

You said it was Wing Chun and Muay Thai. This was a slapfight with some kind of screwy wrestling.

I think ur missing the point. this is what they claimed not me. i presented the film

 

[fighterman]

fighterman, would you say you hate showoffs and invincible masters more than you hate the idea of them misrepresenting theirselves and defrauding the public of their money? Which is the worst offence would you say?

Is the only way to rid the arts of charlatans to debunk them? How can this be done when -to the public- they appear and sound convincing? I think the public are not always fussed about certificates and lineage and all that. They just like flamboyant technique and big promises. How do we educate the public and also, how do we avoid being seen as showoff, false prophet and invincible master? Thank you.

actually ud be surprsed (and im talking about europe although in australia it was pretty much the same) that people are fussed about certificates, uniformity, lineage, traditional, original, etc etc, it all makes good marketing. and if i write enough on the public boards, advertise, and bombard the internet and even do some good well rehearsed demo then alot of people believe me. it all depends on how u market. what better way than a young guy showing up to your front doot with a video camera and say 'Hey I think you're full of it, lets see what you can really do'? Then put it on the internet.?
A lot of people especially inexperienced people really cant tell the difference between a good teacher and a good promo. people unfortunately are not that smart and believe alot of things. People will believe for example we are in an economic mess when there is in reality enough money on the planet to purchase all the property on the planet 6 times over (sorry for the off topic)
The internet and video tecnology is a great way to show scams and rip off merchants. theres many around. The revolution in egypt in part came about because students had video and internet tecnology, they show their parents how well everybody else is living and of course they wake up to the reality that their average earnings of 200 euro a month and poor quality life is not on...
maybe im wrong but i think the internet is a great place to start. the internet is also aiding many unresolved murder cases, missing people etc

 

[Cyriacus]

I think ur missing the point. this is what they claimed not me. i presented the film

Aha. And to what end?

 

[Jenna]

actually ud be surprsed (and im talking about europe although in australia it was pretty much the same) that people are fussed about certificates, uniformity, lineage, traditional, original, etc etc, it all makes good marketing.

Thank you for your kind reply. Yes, I was playing devil's advocate there to make the point. I should have made that clearer, apologies. I appreciate that if these certificates, affiliations, former instructors and lineage were not important then the charlatans would not waste time faking them.

and if i write enough on the public boards, advertise, and bombard the internet and even do some good well rehearsed demo then alot of people believe me. it all depends on how u market. what better way than a young guy showing up to your front doot with a video camera and say 'Hey I think you're full of it, lets see what you can really do'? Then put it on the internet.?
A lot of people especially inexperienced people really cant tell the difference between a good teacher and a good promo. people unfortunately are not that smart and believe alot of things. People will believe for example we are in an economic mess when there is in reality enough money on the planet to purchase all the property on the planet 6 times over (sorry for the off topic)
The internet and video tecnology is a great way to show scams and rip off merchants. theres many around. The revolution in egypt in part came about because students had video and internet tecnology, they show their parents how well everybody else is living and of course they wake up to the reality that their average earnings of 200 euro a month and poor quality life is not on...
maybe im wrong but i think the internet is a great place to start. the internet is also aiding many unresolved murder cases, missing people etc

I think the internet can be a double-edged sword in a way, would you agree?

I mean if a good teacher is also a clever marketeer, they can disseminate their message very widely and with great success. The other side of that coin is that if they do not post up their absolute best video performance, forum advice or opinion, then what is posted and lasts forever on the great democracy that is the internet is a piece of unrepresentative work that gives forever a false perception of their true capabilities.

By that same token, a MA fraud can -if they put up a convincing enough video or type things that make them sound as if they are trained in ways they are not- appear to possess a skill and an expertise that they in reality do not.

I think you are right about the internet as a source, though whatever advantage it provides you as a bona fide MA expert, it also provides to those that are neither of those things, is this not true? If true, then how do good instructors educate a wider public (I mean to those that do not train in their dojo) and differentiate theirselves from the charlatans when both have access to the same technology and marketeering?

Your opinion is welcome, thank you

 

[fighterman]

Aha. And to what end?

what do you mean to what end? i think ive already made that obvious

 

[fighterman]

Thank you for your kind reply. Yes, I was playing devil's advocate there to make the point. I should have made that clearer, apologies. I appreciate that if these certificates, affiliations, former instructors and lineage were not important then the charlatans would not waste time faking them.



I think the internet can be a double-edged sword in a way, would you agree?

I mean if a good teacher is also a clever marketeer, they can disseminate their message very widely and with great success. The other side of that coin is that if they do not post up their absolute best video performance, forum advice or opinion, then what is posted and lasts forever on the great democracy that is the internet is a piece of unrepresentative work that gives forever a false perception of their true capabilities.

By that same token, a MA fraud can -if they put up a convincing enough video or type things that make them sound as if they are trained in ways they are not- appear to possess a skill and an expertise that they in reality do not.

I think you are right about the internet as a source, though whatever advantage it provides you as a bona fide MA expert, it also provides to those that are neither of those things, is this not true? If true, then how do good instructors educate a wider public (I mean to those that do not train in their dojo) and differentiate theirselves from the charlatans when both have access to the same technology and marketeering?

Your opinion is welcome, thank you

I agree with you I started internet marketing a few months ago. i saw a niche and thought i could provide a service online instead of the dojo in fact here is my link if you want some video tutorials http://www.wingtchundo.com/where-you-can-find-us.php
Ive been doing MA for 37 years and last thing i want to do is rip people off so im giving it a shot in marketing. the worst people can do is say ima no hoper and get nowhere but i can live with that, but so far so good. so yes i agree if you are good then you have to try and expand if thats your desire in life. however i think you have to make the virtual lesson almost better and very detailed than a physical lesson. so yep i agree you have to be good in both areas.
ps anyone interested in getting free vids im coming out with lesson number 3 soon and i take no offence in constructive criticsm. take care to all in the forum

 

[Cyriacus]

what do you mean to what end? i think ive already made that obvious

...To show everyone an uninteresting unskilled wrestling match type thing with Wing Chun and Muay Thai labelled on it?

Heh.
Ill join the party then. Cool.

 

[fighterman]

...To show everyone an uninteresting unskilled wrestling match type thing with Wing Chun and Muay Thai labelled on it?

Heh.
Ill join the party then. Cool.

if you have trouble understanding the point of the topic then i respect your point of view

 

[wtxs]

...To show everyone an uninteresting unskilled wrestling match type thing with Wing Chun and Muay Thai labelled on it?

Heh.
Ill join the party then. Cool.

Hot damn man ... she can take my moneeh any time.:boing2:

 

[Cyriacus]

if you have trouble understanding the point of the topic then i respect your point of view

Im not having trouble understanding it - I know what Youre intention was. But it really is just two people novice wrestling with slapping tacked on.
You presented a film of this for us to view, about someone who supposedly went on about how he trained every day for 20 years, with some other guy, then they did what looks to Me more like Beginner MMA Light Sparring with a grappling focus?
My point is that it doesnt achieve very much, either in what theyre doing, or telling folks about it. The reason I added that Video is to simply do the exact same thing as what You did, and see what Youd say. Which was interesting.
Your earlier reply was that it wasnt a Pro Match. It doesnt need to be. Actual beginners can do better than this. Which is what leads Me to believe that theres either some disinformation afoot, or that this was, literally, intentionally, just a friendly grappling match.

If Youre having trouble seeing where Im coming from, as were the majority of people who replied to this Thread, I also Respect Your Point of View.

 

[fighterman]

Im not having trouble understanding it - I know what Youre intention was. But it really is just two people novice wrestling with slapping tacked on.
You presented a film of this for us to view, about someone who supposedly went on about how he trained every day for 20 years, with some other guy, then they did what looks to Me more like Beginner MMA Light Sparring with a grappling focus?
My point is that it doesnt achieve very much, either in what theyre doing, or telling folks about it. The reason I added that Video is to simply do the exact same thing as what You did, and see what Youd say. Which was interesting.
Your earlier reply was that it wasnt a Pro Match. It doesnt need to be. Actual beginners can do better than this. Which is what leads Me to believe that theres either some disinformation afoot, or that this was, literally, intentionally, just a friendly grappling match.

If Youre having trouble seeing where Im coming from, as were the majority of people who replied to this Thread, I also Respect Your Point of View.

I think I understand you. personally I felt it was important (as I still do) to put into light the people who go out of their way to discredit other systems, styles and people who genuinely train hard and teach with passion to try and better peoples abilities. maybe if you were in our country you would see things differently, in this case i felt it should be put onto a world view simply because the oerson in question was replicating a situation that had happened some 25 years ago with Emin Boztepe and GM William Cheung.
now think of how many people are brainwashed by a two dimensional screen and also by a vertiual reality that basically conditions people (who many times act like sheep ie: they'll believe almost anything as long as they see it on screen or read it because it's written therefore it must be true)
having said that as much as this fight is very similar to a confrontation between children, nevertheless it should be exposed. it should also be exposed how much negative influence the internet could have by writing and claiming sensational things and then producing collaborative demostrations to which people fall subject in believing this is reality. here a young guy with minimal fighting experience beats up a 20 year fenomenon....
not only but he does it quite easily. the guy who wins if he wanted to especially whern he had him in the mounted position refrained from hitting him much harder and controlled himself.
so i think it is important to be real and honest with people. I guess fundamentally this is my point

 

[MA-Caver]

I've seen better fights out on the streets by two guys with NO training what-so-ever.
Watching this was no different than watching a school-yard fight. Agreed with Bill... couple of 6 year olds in a tussle. Sheesh.

 

[Cyriacus]

I think I understand you. personally I felt it was important (as I still do) to put into light the people who go out of their way to discredit other systems, styles and people who genuinely train hard and teach with passion to try and better peoples abilities. maybe if you were in our country you would see things differently, in this case i felt it should be put onto a world view simply because the oerson in question was replicating a situation that had happened some 25 years ago with Emin Boztepe and GM William Cheung.

Of course - But Students aside, if You wanna do that, look at entire outlets where the Teachers Teach a drained-of-life method. Plus, neither person was skilled. They could have been beginners, with big mouths for all I know.

now think of how many people are brainwashed by a two dimensional screen and also by a vertiual reality that basically conditions people (who many times act like sheep ie: they'll believe almost anything as long as they see it on screen or read it because it's written therefore it must be true)
having said that as much as this fight is very similar to a confrontation between children, nevertheless it should be exposed. it should also be exposed how much negative influence the internet could have by writing and claiming sensational things and then producing collaborative demostrations to which people fall subject in believing this is reality. here a young guy with minimal fighting experience beats up a 20 year fenomenon....

The same could be and has been said of the Newspaper. But noone can retort to the Newspaper. On the Internet, people spot these things, and point it out pretty clearly. Plus, even some random guy running around Youtube isnt exactly going to find that, and go, 'oh, never mind everything else ive seen. I guess this is what those two styles are really like!".

not only but he does it quite easily. the guy who wins if he wanted to especially whern he had him in the mounted position refrained from hitting him much harder and controlled himself.

Mostly due to size. Technical Grappling and Strength Grappling are seperable for a good reason.

so i think it is important to be real and honest with people. I guess fundamentally this is my point

I dont think You had the desired effect, friend. Its still a poorly labeled slapfight

The Internet can claim sensational things. But the thing is, this isnt sensational. This is, in fact, a grapply slapfight. Nothing will change that.
Heres an example I can find in a hurry;

And glance at the uniform.
And if You spot the hilarious part, that isnt a part of the Video, it will make more sense how this is relevant to the next part.

Fundamentally, this shows peoples inclination to glorify what they like, and put down what they dont.
Before the Comments section stopped existing, Im sure like every other Video about MA Crossovers, it was a debate between fanatics of each side calling the other crap. But at the end of the day, noone is going to change any opinions based on these.
Its one fight, and it means nothing in any given scheme of things.

Sure, be Real and be Honest.
But one persons Real may be different to another, and many People think They are being Honest, even if Theyre not.
And You say He controlled Himself, but are You sure this wasnt Light/Semicontact Sparring? There was no heavy hitting at all, at any point. Just because He doesnt do it then doesnt make it control.
As for, its written therefore it must be true; I hear a LOT more people talking about people who think that, than I hear people who actually do that. Granted, some people are foolish. But the context of their foolishness is no different to the information being given to them.
For instance, are You sure this wasnt Light to Semi Contact?

 

[fighterman]

The Internet can claim sensational things. But the thing is, this isnt sensational. This is, in fact, a grapply slapfight. Nothing will change that.
Heres an example I can find in a hurry;

And glance at the uniform.
And if You spot the hilarious part, that isnt a part of the Video, it will make more sense how this is relevant to the next part.

Fundamentally, this shows peoples inclination to glorify what they like, and put down what they dont.
Before the Comments section stopped existing, Im sure like every other Video about MA Crossovers, it was a debate between fanatics of each side calling the other crap. But at the end of the day, noone is going to change any opinions based on these.
Its one fight, and it means nothing in any given scheme of things.

Sure, be Real and be Honest.
But one persons Real may be different to another, and many People think They are being Honest, even if Theyre not.
And You say He controlled Himself, but are You sure this wasnt Light/Semicontact Sparring? There was no heavy hitting at all, at any point. Just because He doesnt do it then doesnt make it control.
As for, its written therefore it must be true; I hear a LOT more people talking about people who think that, than I hear people who actually do that. Granted, some people are foolish. But the context of their foolishness is no different to the information being given to them.
For instance, are You sure this wasnt Light to Semi Contact?

yeh Im sure even because i know both the guys involved
and the guy that was on top realised that this guy wasnt worth much in fact he says in italian 'as far as Im concerned this fights finsihed' as if to suggest that it wasnt worth the effort. if you notice its the smaller guy who attacks like a kamikaze

 

[Tez3]

yeh Im sure even because i know both the guys involved
and the guy that was on top realised that this guy wasnt worth much in fact he says in italian 'as far as Im concerned this fights finsihed' as if to suggest that it wasnt worth the effort. if you notice its the smaller guy who attacks like a kamikaze

he dives out of the sky and lands on him?

 

[mograph]

This is, in fact, a grapply slapfight.

So it's not just me who thought that.

 

[fighterman]

he dives out of the sky and lands on him?

no intended as an act of desperation when there is nothing left to do

 

[KamonGuy2]

Okay, I have to say that this is one of the most unintentionally funny threads I have read on here. Its titled 'Real Challenge Fight' with a video that shows two guys going lighter than what I do with beginners at Kamon (seriously, my training session on Monday had more strikes involved than in that video).

I would love the details of the participants in the video to be named. If one of them is claiming to be the best wing chun guy around and better than other styles, I see no problem in releasing more details about him

From what I have seen, I would have no problem taking on either of those guys, and Im not even halfway to being at the top of the wing chun ladder. Infighting and politics is so stupid. Crap technique is crap technique. Doesnt matter where a student is from or what teachers he trained under a decade ago. Wing chun students should pride themselves on being involved in a progressive art that constantly evolves and changes

 

[Cyriacus]

yeh Im sure even because i know both the guys involved
and the guy that was on top realised that this guy wasnt worth much in fact he says in italian 'as far as Im concerned this fights finsihed' as if to suggest that it wasnt worth the effort. if you notice its the smaller guy who attacks like a kamikaze

How did I forget this thread.

You know the guys? Cool. That doesnt really change much. Because these were very gentle blows.

The smaller guy doesnt attack too hard at all.

So it's not just me who thought that.

Correct!

 

[fighterman]

yep fair enough, however one may feel better than these guys as a fighter doesnt change the facts that this is what happens when u claim yourself to be the best at what you do, doesnt change the fact that when you discredit people ,and in this case all other wing chun lineages masters from guitierez to boztepe to wong shun leung you have to be willing to back yourslef up or at least have the minimum preparation. now up until this date the guy was a self professed miralce man of the world wing chun clan. he defiantly said he could take anybody on ANYBODY, and the results were a mediocre kid with basic thai box training gets the better of him...
this guy was doing seminars selling bart chum dao that he made personally and had a growing online business. the fact that this fight is ridiculed is ok as far as im concerned. it brings to light how much televised internet brainwashing that happens in mass proportions.
this guy has now got a low profile doesnt vertiiually teach anymore because he instantaneously lost 95 percent of his students. and all because he claimed to have some form of original wing chun and everybody else was crap.
for the record the guys name is Roberto Blandino