Reactive Defence Techniques

[chasman]

Quote failed please delete...

 

[chasman]

Ummmmm..... what you're describing is taking a stance, which you just said was a Bad Thing (tm). It's also the position I most commonly start with in confrontations with violent people in our ER.

I'm not sure I follow your criticism here.

If I go sideways on, front leg bent a bit as a groin guard but weight back ready to kick or withdraw, front hand up and clenched as a guard, back arm cocked, head down looking mid torso so I can see all his guns, THAT is my stance and says "Come on let's fight.." Bad Thing (TM)

The fence looks innocuous and non-aggressive. Technically a stance from our PoV but not the aggressor's.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm not sure I follow your criticism here.

If I go sideways on, front leg bent a bit as a groin guard but weight back ready to kick or withdraw, front hand up and clenched as a guard, back arm cocked, head down looking mid torso so I can see all his guns, THAT is my stance and says "Come on let's fight.." Bad Thing (TM)

The fence looks innocuous and non-aggressive. Technically a stance from our PoV but not the aggressor's.

Point of view is irrelevant. You're either taking a stance or you're not.
Any stance can be adjusted to be more or less aggressive in appearance.
Do exactly what you describe above, but open your hands and shift them to a slightly more central location. Bring your head up a bit. Boom. Aggression gone.
You're still 'taking a stance' though.

 

[chasman]

Thanks for the input everyone... I'm going to visit the local teachers as advised.

 

[drop bear]

You can have your hands wherever you want if you understand your distances. If you are in range and they have the angle. You probably won't even see the first attack.

So for me the fence isn't so much a stance as a concept.

Now having said that. If they are going n range my hands are up and I am ready to go. Because I can't reliably prevent punches from certain positions and I dislike getting punched in the face. I tend to avoid the whole in range waiting to fight thing.

 

[ShortBridge]

You might also check out the book "scaling force" by Lawrence Kane and Rory Miller. It goes deep into considerations of legal considerations in self-defense.

 

[Danny T]

Get whatever training you can get with the instructor you enjoy the training with the most. Be aware, most martial arts systems aren't self defense systems...they are fighting systems.
There is far more to self defense/personal protection than fighting.

 

[JR 137]

Along with what's been said...

Don't just limit yourself to "Martial Arts." I put that in quotes because people tend to only think karate, Kung fu, judo, jujitsu, etc. when they think of martial arts when they're looking around.

Check out boxing and wrestling clubs too if they're in your area. When used right and with the right people, wrestling may or may not be a good fit for you. If jujitsu is on the radar, wrestling is an alternative. The only way to know is to check it out.

 

[oftheherd1]

So....you are saying that you can't depend on pressure points and better have an alternative because they aren't always reliable?

No, I did not say that. Please reread my post.

 

[FighterTwister]

Get whatever training you can get with the instructor you enjoy the training with the most.

Be aware, most martial arts systems aren't self defense systems...they are fighting systems.
There is far more to self defense/personal protection than fighting.

I don't know why you would emphasize on that being one is "Defensive and one is Fighting", its irrelevant in my opinion and a nonconforming statement of interpretation.

Its in my opinion they are all designed for "Unarmed Combat" being "Martial Arts" and if Judo is more defensive as you say watch this.............

So this play on words that one is softer and less harmful, than the other........ pfftt ..... really, C'mon!

Allot depends on the guy doing it, you could be thrown like a rag doll by a 7.4 foot tall person weighing 200Ib's

Again its not the Martial Art in question or debate its all about the person and selecting a Martial Art that suits the body type or the demeanor E.g How Aggressive are you?

Its also how proficient you are at it or mastered in the art form that really counts in all considerations.

• Competition
• Personal Training
• Self Defense
  
• Work Related
• MMA
  
• Etc

But anyway all opinions welcome of course.

I just don't agree with the dictionary view and assumption that is portrayed that some are more deadlier, I laugh my head off silly.

 

[Danny T]

I don't know why you would emphasize on that being one is "Defensive and one is Fighting", its irrelevant in my opinion and a nonconforming statement of interpretation.

Its in my opinion they are all designed for "Unarmed Combat" being "Martial Arts" and if Judo is more defensive as you say watch this.............

So this play on words that one is softer and less harmful, than the other........ pfftt ..... really, C'mon!

Allot depends on the guy doing it, you could be thrown like a rag doll by a 7.4 foot tall person weighing 200Ib's

Again its not the Martial Art in question or debate its all about the person and selecting a Martial Art that suits the body type or the demeanor E.g How Aggressive are you?

Its also how proficient you are at it or mastered in the art form that really counts in all considerations.

• Competition
• Personal Training
• Self Defense
  
• Work Related
• MMA
  
• Etc

But anyway all opinions welcome of course.

I just don't agree with the dictionary view and assumption that is portrayed that some are more deadlier, I laugh my head off silly.

Huh!??

Chasman was asking what should he take? Then he said Jiu Jitsu, Aikido and Wing Chun are all local to me.

I said: "Get whatever training you can get with the instructor you enjoy the training with the most. Be aware, most martial arts systems aren't self defense systems...they are fighting systems.

There is far more to self defense/personal protection than fighting.”
Didn't say anything about any art being more defensive than another.

Your videos on Judo are great.
However, he stated Jiu Jitsu, Aikido, and Wing Chun were local to him not Judo.
So take what is available with the instructor he enjoys training with most.
Nothing about one being better than the other, one being more defensive than the other.

Now as to Self defense/personal protection being fighting; fighting is but a form and a part of self defense. There is more to self defense than just being able to fight.

 

[drop bear]

I don't know why you would emphasize on that being one is "Defensive and one is Fighting", its irrelevant in my opinion and a nonconforming statement of interpretation.

Its in my opinion they are all designed for "Unarmed Combat" being "Martial Arts" and if Judo is more defensive as you say watch this.............

So this play on words that one is softer and less harmful, than the other........ pfftt ..... really, C'mon!

Allot depends on the guy doing it, you could be thrown like a rag doll by a 7.4 foot tall person weighing 200Ib's

Again its not the Martial Art in question or debate its all about the person and selecting a Martial Art that suits the body type or the demeanor E.g How Aggressive are you?

Its also how proficient you are at it or mastered in the art form that really counts in all considerations.

• Competition
• Personal Training
• Self Defense
  
• Work Related
• MMA
  
• Etc

But anyway all opinions welcome of course.

I just don't agree with the dictionary view and assumption that is portrayed that some are more deadlier, I laugh my head off silly.

If you are old and out of shape. Judo is going to be a hard path.

 

[FighterTwister]

I learnt a street style Kenpo in my late teens but never had reason to use it in anger and haven't practised in years. I'm now I'm in my 50s, overweight and have dodgy knees. If you ask me to do a break-fall I'll probably break my neck instead.

I'd like to learn an efficient, effective method of self-defence against street threats. In these days of ubiquitous surveillance and unpredictable juries, I feel it is important the attack should be initiated by the aggressor. Passive defence? Reactive defence?


I'm particularly interested in subtlety and minimalism. Pressure points rather than punches and kicks. Slipping and parrying in preference to brutal blocking. I like joint locks and disarms...

This forum claims to be friendly... now we'll see

Just to join in discussion and provide constructive feedback here are my replies

First……….. yike’s……on the highlighted part, that freaks me out a little, there is none.

The street has no rules or no boundaries that allow’s you just to remain defensive.

Well you could try to be Floyd Mayweather the greatest defensive boxer ever or maybe Usain Bolts the fastest runner ever as another option…LOL

Is that a friendly enough answer ….. Hehehe


Okay, on a serious note, yes I know what you mean, but you are talking “Streets” it’s another story altogether.

You need wits about you on this side of the fence being street threats as you put it.

Some of the reasons you have already aforementioned but you eluded to the fact that the street is life threatening and is a non-format environment like sparring for example, there are no rules no limitations so on, right.

The street is raw, unscripted, unpredictable, violent, fast and intensive you need a martial art that helps you in the fight as much as helps you remain defensive and strike to defend yourself.

Side note Boxing can be okay but again wrong format for such an environment and requirement but helpful nonetheless.

There is no middle ground or sugar coating when you have people for example high on ICE squaring up with you and throwing crazy frontal attacks on you.

Sadly to say, look on YouTube, if you have the stomach for it, very upsetting to see what happens to both the attacker on ICE and the victims.

Also in any martial art you do you will be forced to fight there is no other option as the saying goes “Fight or Flight” get in or get out……….or run fast.

From the legal standpoint you address, its all about intent in a court of LAW they will look at this and check your history if any, in a court room there are freedoms for aggressive behavioral instincts (actions) for “Self Defense” in line with “Preservation of Life Laws" etc. … the fear of being killed in an attack or hostile environment.

For example “kidnapping” etc ……. you would need to research these laws in your state and country.

It’s also more about you not the martial arts when you are talking “Defensive Street Fighting” so to speak you got to be fit healthy, reasonably fast on your feet quick to think and most importantly have many skills in your tool box, if that makes any sense.

“Defensive Street Fighting” is a disparity in terms of martial arts, you are not going to be able to just grab someone in a lock and say right I dealt with that.

You should be so lucky if that ever happened, its 1 in a million chance of success.

A real street fight is not like watching Steven Seagal movies LoL

Normally you would have to move around allot and weaken the opponent by hitting hard somewhere like the groin or head butting the nose and then take an arm and lock it so on. But you struck that person in the process of an attack is the point, so by definition its attacking and defending yourself by taking control of the fight.

So all martial arts are capable of this you said you use to practice KENPO here is an example of that………….

You could just continue with that and focus on improving your fitness and health making sure your BMI matches your height so forth as you. Because you mentioned your knees well there are other options to avoid strenuous knee exercises or putting more weight on them. Usually knee pain is due to being overweight amongst other things like ankle pain and swelling etc. So shedding a few pounds and doing some exercises that strengthen theses areas will help as well not forgetting dietary changes and disciplines.

Honestly, I love Chocolate and Pizza so I have to be strict with myself I would kill for both LoL also I’m a wine lover so a good combination I think getting a.......... meal, dessert and fluids ………Hahahahaha

I would strongly recommend joining a gym first and get in shape you could be doing some boxing in-between if you like.

An example of a modern Fitness Center here:- Coaching & Training Services | Anytime Fitness

What you get these days is:-

• 24/7 hour Fitness Centers
• Free - Initial Fitness Consultation and Assessment - Loot at YouTube for what this entails as expectations
• Personal Development Training Plan and Set Goals to achieve
  
• Personal Trainer and proper Workout Plan to follow through as daily activities on various equipment
  
• Defined areas of improvement like needs and suggested advice from professional trainers
• Support Services - coaching or advice etc
  
• Group Workouts
• Benefits of using other gym services like - Sauna’s, Swimming Pools, Massages, Boxing ring or Octagons for light sparring etc
• Also meeting other people and building a social network and support as well as good info

So you would need to shop around for something that suits you and your age group and taste as they are all different and offer or cater for many things.

Find a place where you are comfortable to train.

Doing things like..............

1. Stretching = Flexibility Conditioning
   
2. Exercises = Mobility Conditioning
3. Light Weights = Strength Conditioning
   
4. Relation and Recovery = Natural Healing Conditioning

All other options will not fit due to the heavy commitment to movement and kicks, ground work or jumping up and down so on and your current health and fitness, in my opinion.

Martial Arts like Wing Chun have ground work and kicks to the knees as an example.

Or this as another example.......... Basic Kick Everyone Should Know | Wing Chun

So you can see what I mean, that you are asking too much of yourself in your current condition, you will be better off losing weight and improve your fitness condition first. To improve your overall health and well-being and develop better mobility and have the energy to pursue martial arts and fitness requirements, if you don't you could cause serious injury to yourself by doing martial arts is what I'm addressing.

Its only then in my opinion you can take on something like Wing Chung or Kenpo again.

I would honestly suggest Tai Chi to be honest it will open another world of fitness relaxation and also Martial Arts as you learn the various forms and roots in that branch of Tai Chi Martial Arts, its your choice of course but there are many forms and styles that are relaxed yet offer martial arts skills.

Well, I’m just chatting with you here as we don’t know each other and providing good honest feedback that will help you in the bigger picture also putting your money in well spent areas of physical health and development.

Cheers M8

 

[drop bear]

Martial Arts like Wing Chun have ground

lets just never show wing chun ground work. I mean it gets mocked enough without showing the equivalent of a rabbit driving a truck.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

lets just never show wing chun ground work. I mean it gets mocked enough without showing the equivalent of a rabbit driving a truck.

Some bits in that video weren't awful, then that sweep happened.

 

[Danny T]

Randy Williams has some good stuff...this video - not so much.

 

[drop bear]

Some bits in that video weren't awful, then that sweep happened.

That mount defence.

But look Aparently i am a bit of a duchebag. So lets go with the popular approach.

Hey wing chun guys. That defence looks really awesome you are definately ahead of the game there. In fact we have a fun little fight show Airlie beach fight night. With some really fun guys that you could come down and totally own.

Just please promise to go easy on us okay?

I mean its got rules and stuff so it is not even like a real fight more like a sport.

 

[JR 137]

If you are old and out of shape. Judo is going to be a hard path.

Curiosity question,,,
How does judo compare to wrestling, physically? Obviously different teachers and coaches have different emphasizing, but on average would you say one is significantly harder than the other from a conditioning and body getting beat up on standpoint?

In other words, if I can hang in an average wrestling club, would an average judo club be significantly easier, harder, or about the same? How about an average BJJ school?

 

[drop bear]

Curiosity question,,,
How does judo compare to wrestling, physically? Obviously different teachers and coaches have different emphasizing, but on average would you say one is significantly harder than the other from a conditioning and body getting beat up on standpoint?

In other words, if I can hang in an average wrestling club, would an average judo club be significantly easier, harder, or about the same? How about an average BJJ school?

You could make wrestling easier if you wanted because you can ease people on to the ground.

A hip or shoulder throw the best you can do is not drive them in to the mat.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You could make wrestling easier if you wanted because you can ease people on to the ground.

A hip or shoulder throw the best you can do is not drive them in to the mat.

Other than that, the groundwork effort is probably pretty similar. It's the standing throws in arts like Judo that can get rough. I can ease someone down off a hip throw in drills (and that apparently takes some skill - students struggle to have enough control of uke to ease them down), but not in resisted training. A shoulder throw is always a shoulder throw.