Rattan vs. Hardwood vs. Wax Wood vs. Etc. (Escrima Sticks)

[TheThirdAncestor]

I also have a question on this subject as our school is putting together weapon demos--the demo I'm putting together is 3-sectional against double broadsword. The school has a couple of 3-sectionals but I'd like to get my own. I've seen "red oak" for $30 and have seen "burned rattan" for $40. Considering the previous posts here it would seem that the oak would be good for solo practice, and the rattan against polypropylene broadswords? In actual demo we'd likely use an aluminum 3-sectional (anybody have experience with that?)

 

[Blindside]

Most red oak used in weapons at this price point is crap. Are you actually going to be hitting anything with it? I would do the rattan just for durability and safety.

An aluminum 3 sectional sounds spendy, is it hollow?

 

[Juany118]

Awesome thanks for all the help guys. Some much needed and appreciated info. I think that I will go with some regular Rattan sticks to train in class with, and then grab a set of hardwoods for solo practicing...so I can get used to a heavier weight.

Plus that means I get to pick out two cool pairs of sticks

ANyway, thanks to you all again!!!

-chazlink

Might I suggest getting training swords instead? They are more expensive than sticks but not ridiculously high either. I only say this because, if by JKD/Kali you mean Lacoste-Inosanto Kali, the sticks are stand ins for swords. If it is solo practice having training swords helps you to practice somethings the sticks can't really teach you, the edge orientation of the blade. You will be surprised how this changes something as simple as doce pares.

 

[Blindside]

Might I suggest getting training swords instead? They are more expensive than sticks but not ridiculously high either. I only say this because, if by JKD/Kali you mean Lacoste-Inosanto Kali, the sticks are stand ins for swords. If it is solo practice having training swords helps you to practice somethings the sticks can't really teach you, the edge orientation of the blade. You will be surprised how this changes something as simple as doce pares.

This is so important and is so often neglected. I think rattan is so institutionalized into the arts because it is what was used historically. A number of companies are making fairly inexpensive polymer trainers now that I really think should become the standard rather than the exception. The aluminum trainers are nice but take more maintenance to keep burr free, the polymer ones will go for years.

 

[geezer]

I've been using cheap rattan from Frank's Cane and Rush. Usually I don't bother with curing or burning/heat treating. Use it raw, when it starts to soften and fray, tape it up tight. A $3 stick will last a long time.

Wood, Aluminum or poly trainers are great, but even the cheapies cost about ten times more than $3 sticks. At least the ones I've been able to find. At that price, sticks are still good to start with.

Incidentally, while we do teach attention to blade orientation ...primarily since it provides a better structure for striking, I'm personally more focused on impact weapons. For one thing, many or most of the improvised weapons one might pick up for self defense are applied as percussive or impact weapons.

BTW has anybody noticed that this thread was started nearly ten years ago?!

@ Blindside: Where do you go for inexpensive trainers?

 

[Juany118]

I've been using cheap rattan from Frank's Cane and Rush. Usually I don't bother with curing or burning/heat treating. Use it raw, when it starts to soften and fray, tape it up tight. A $3 stick will last a long time.

Wood, Aluminum or poly trainers are great, but even the cheapies cost about ten times more than $3 sticks. At least the ones I've been able to find. At that price, sticks are still good to start with.

Incidentally, while we do teach attention to blade orientation ...primarily since it provides a better structure for striking, I'm personally more focused on impact weapons. For one thing, many or most of the improvised weapons one might pick up for self defense are applied as percussive or impact weapons.

BTW has anybody noticed that this thread was started nearly ten years ago?!

@ Blindside: Where do you go for inexpensive trainers?

That's why I said "not ridiculously high." I suppose however that is relative, for me dropping 60-80 for two quality trainers isn't a big expense since I know they will last a while.

Nope didn't notice the OP date, I tend to just look at the latest post dates, good eye.

 

[Blindside]

I've been using cheap rattan from Frank's Cane and Rush. Usually I don't bother with curing or burning/heat treating. Use it raw, when it starts to soften and fray, tape it up tight. A $3 stick will last a long time.

Wood, Aluminum or poly trainers are great, but even the cheapies cost about ten times more than $3 sticks. At least the ones I've been able to find. At that price, sticks are still good to start with.

Incidentally, while we do teach attention to blade orientation ...primarily since it provides a better structure for striking, I'm personally more focused on impact weapons. For one thing, many or most of the improvised weapons one might pick up for self defense are applied as percussive or impact weapons.

BTW has anybody noticed that this thread was started nearly ten years ago?!

@ Blindside: Where do you go for inexpensive trainers?

Traditional Filipino Weapons is now offering polymer trainers in the $40 range. On a phone so I can't post a link.

Also if you are handy you can make your own, I posted a tutorial on how to make them several years ago on a couple of sites.

 

[Juany118]

Traditional Filipino Weapons is now offering polymer trainers in the $40 range. On a phone so I can't post a link.

Also if you are handy you can make your own, I posted a tutorial on how to make them several years ago on a couple of sites.

That's actually where I got my trainers. I am also buying one of their real ginuntings this month as I just paid off the car...a little present to myself

 

[Blindside]

The TFW training blades: http://traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/content/shop/training-sword/

My DIY tutorial:
DIY polymer training blades

 

[Argus]

Depends on context, no?

Rattan has more give, and I believe rattan-on-rattan will survive better than (most) hardwoods on hardwoods, with the exception of some particularly robust, straight-grained woods, and in the context of stick fighting.

For blade trainers, wooden weapons work pretty well if properly tapered and shaped to offer the right balance and feel. Poorly made wooden blades feel and function more like clubs than swords, however.

Most importantly, though, is what you can and can't do in training with a given weapon. Rattan is not nearly as heavy or as stiff as most durable hardwoods that people advocate, and that translates to very easily broken fingers for your training partners. Something flexible, lightweight, and easy to control is best for any kind of drills, flow, or light sparring.

I also think overly heavy weapons can potentially lead to bad habits, if not repetitive strain injury. I've been on a hiatus from the martial arts for quite a while now due to RSI/tendinosis in the wrists, which make grabbing and swinging heavy things, or being disarmed/put in wristlocks a bad idea, so the little bit of practice I try doing to is with very light implements.

 

[geezer]

I also think overly heavy weapons can potentially lead to bad habits, if not repetitive strain injury. I've been on a hiatus from the martial arts for quite a while now due to RSI/tendinosis in the wrists, which make grabbing and swinging heavy things, or being disarmed/put in wristlocks a bad idea, so the little bit of practice I try doing to is with very light implements.

This is info worth sharing. So much of the mythology of martial arts training is built on endless repetition and excessive feats of physical endurance, but the truth is that in the long run, that approach will really mess you up. As you get further along in years it's so important to train smarter rather than training more. Right now I'm also unable to train full-on due to tendinosis of my elbows (lateral epicondylosis) and an irritated achilles tendon that has given me a noticeable limp .....Gimpy Geezer.

 

[DaleDugas]

I also have a question on this subject as our school is putting together weapon demos--the demo I'm putting together is 3-sectional against double broadsword. The school has a couple of 3-sectionals but I'd like to get my own. I've seen "red oak" for $30 and have seen "burned rattan" for $40. Considering the previous posts here it would seem that the oak would be good for solo practice, and the rattan against polypropylene broadswords? In actual demo we'd likely use an aluminum 3-sectional (anybody have experience with that?)

White Wax Wood 3 sectional staffs are much better than hardwoods. Wax Wood is lighter but tougher. Will not splinter like other hardwoods.

Ash and Hickory would be better. Take a beating. they make baseball bats from those woods.

​

 

[TheThirdAncestor]

White Wax Wood 3 sectional staffs are much better than hardwoods. Wax Wood is lighter but tougher. Will not splinter like other hardwoods.

Ash and Hickory would be better. Take a beating. they make baseball bats from those woods.

​

Thank you for your advice, it is greatly appreciated.

 

[Argus]

White Wax Wood 3 sectional staffs are much better than hardwoods. Wax Wood is lighter but tougher. Will not splinter like other hardwoods.

Ash and Hickory would be better. Take a beating. they make baseball bats from those woods.

​

Just noticed the question about Red Oak and such.

This is good advice. American Red Oak is pretty prone to splitting, as is white oak, though moderately less so. Japanese Oak is tighter grained and better about this, so some high quality training weapons will be made of it, but you won't find those in the $30 or $40 price range.
Hickory, Ash, and a whole slew of other hardwoods are perfectly good options as well.

More important than the species of wood, however, is the orientation of the grain in the piece and the distribution of weight. Low quality training weapons will generally be haphazard about grain direction, and will be very tip heavy near the point. Both of these qualities contribute to failure more than anything else. Even Hickory, if the grain is wavy or not oriented well, will be prone to splitting.

I've made numerous training weapons out of everything from Hickory, Maple, to Red Oak, and even Poplar. And, believe it or not, the Poplar has held up fantastically along with everything else - dents everywhere, of course, but I'd actually defy anyone to break them during normal training. They hold up to their intended purpose of very robust, light-weight training implements.

I also taper the blades distally (in thickness), which contributes both to their balance and lively feel (giving them the feel of a blade, rather than a club in the hand), reduces wrist strain for the practitioner, and furthermore makes them less prone to failure when clashing with an opposing weapon because less of the mass is out past the tip.

Quality wooden training weapons like this will almost invariably be hand made, are somewhat difficult to come by, and will be in the $80+ range, but are worth it, in my opinion. Of course, you can also make your own, but unless you're already an experienced woodworker and have a variety of hand tools, it would be far cheaper/quicker to buy a few, though not nearly as fun as making them

 

[realg7]

Fire hardened rattan for me

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