question

[HG1]

Absolutely. Check with your instructor if you are unsure about the seminar presenter credentials. Otherwise, your school should support your decision to grow.

 

[geezer]

Coming from CMA I know of at least 1 sifu who is VERY traditional in his thinking about training and Sifu/student relationship and if you were to go to a seminar without asking or without his permission he would likely kick you out of his school. If you asked to go to a tournament he would tell you no and if you went anyway he would kick you out of his school.

My old WT sifu was the same way, and I respected his wishes for many years. Still, regardless of his incredible skills, he was wrong, according to my value system, and as much as I regret not having access to his knowledge, I do not regret the decision to leave his organization. Personal integrity and intellectual freedom must eventually trump authoritarian sifu-worship. And, this isn't just a CMA thing either. Many years ago a good friend of mine, also a dedicated blackbelt, ran into the same problem with his hyper-traditional Shotokan instructor. When away at college, he chose to attend a seminar by another highly respected Japanese sensei from a different Shotokan organization. When he returned home, he was very honest about this with his own sensei and was rewarded with threats of permanent expulsion from his dojo. What a load of garbage. If you choose to put up with such antiquated, parochial thinking, that's your right. I'm just glad that I finally found an organization that is not so narrow in it's outlook, otherwise I doubt that I'd ever have returned to MA training.

 

[kidswarrior]

If the school you attend does not participate in seminars and or tournaments is it okay to go your self ?

I see seminars and tournaments as very different things. Seminars, I'd have no problem with as long as the student was up front with me before and after (so I could correct anything that didn't fit with our art or was untrue or even dangerous; and so I could learn anything noteworthy that might have been covered). Tournaments, though, not so much. I have little belief in the efficacy of tournaments, for reasons I won't derail the thread with.

So yeah, talk to your instructor. There may be many implications you don't see.

Many years ago a good friend of mine, also a dedicated blackbelt, ran into the same problem ...

I bolded the black belt part, geezer, because I think that changes a lot of things. Once someone is a BB, in my view they're more responsible for separating the good from the bad on their own. The OP post, however, lists a green belt at present. As the instructor, I would feel much more responsible for the student's development in this case.

 

[stickarts]

Lots of great posts!
A key reason to have open honest communication with your instructor (and everyone around you) is because this is how you build strong healthy relationships. I know that when students come to me and communicate what is happening or whats on their mind, it builds trust and respect between us. Even if we don't always agree on everything we know where things stand and you know you can count on each other to communicate and at least are considering the other persons viewpoint and you are giving each other a chance to voice thoughts and opinions which can be very valuable.
When there is no communication and you don't know what to expect from someone this can be damaging to relationships which to me is very important.
My best instructors have always encouraged me to learn wherever I can and I highly recommend it too, as long as it is something thats a good fit for the student.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Look at the instructors view point as that of a parent who says “ do not go swing off the ledge over the river” and you (the child) who comes home with a black eye, broken bone, etc. and has to say “ I was swinging off the ledge over the river when ……. Happened”

Some instructors do not believe in tournament competition. Some instructors only want their students attending competitions if they or other Black Belts from their school are their to observe and protect the student. Usually the instructor has their own reason for saying no competitions, so ask them.
As for seminars, some instructors do not want students learning outside of the learning curve they have set up. They also do not want material from outside of their study program inserted until the student reaches a certain understanding level. Others are just afraid the student will know more than they do.
It is always best to consult with your instructor, but sometime you have to make decisions on you own also.

 

[jks9199]

Look at the instructors view point as that of a parent who says “ do not go swing off the ledge over the river” and you (the child) who comes home with a black eye, broken bone, etc. and has to say “ I was swinging off the ledge over the river when ……. Happened”

Some instructors do not believe in tournament competition. Some instructors only want their students attending competitions if they or other Black Belts from their school are their to observe and protect the student. Usually the instructor has their own reason for saying no competitions, so ask them.
As for seminars, some instructors do not want students learning outside of the learning curve they have set up. They also do not want material from outside of their study program inserted until the student reaches a certain understanding level. Others are just afraid the student will know more than they do.
It is always best to consult with your instructor, but sometime you have to make decisions on you own also.

As I said -- I tend to select the seminars my students go to, based on who's teaching or the subject matter. I'm picky -- but not exclusive. I encourage them to go to some seminars that I have no interest in, for example. For some other seminars -- I send them to get the material so all I have to do is correct it -- or so I can get the most current methods and sets. Some particular students may not be sent or encouraged to go to some particular seminars based on their own training level. And, I'm not going to encourage a student who doesn't make it to class to go to a seminar instead... (Note, I said STUDENT. Black belts with a bit of time under their belt are expected to take responsibility for their own training to some extent; if they'd rather do seminars with other people, that's their business.)

Tournaments are a bit different. I prefer that I, my partner, or someone whose eyes I trust be there simply so that I can work on their performance. At the same time -- I don't really care all that much. It's their call... I just can't help them much. We don't use school patches, and if you've earned our system patch -- you've earned it and I trust your ability to represent the style.

 

[Christina05]

thanks for all the feed back its always a big help.

 

[thetruth]

Can't stress that one enough.

I know of instructors that don't care what you attend outside of class and I know of instructors that will kick you out of thier school if you attend a seminars and/or tournaments

If an instructor carries on that you went to a seminar then I'd say find a new school. Only instructors that are insecure won't allow this. Although my old instructor was a tool I did learn some good stuff and he had no problem with me going outside to train elsewhere at the same time or to go to seminars. He had outside instructors into his school for seminars. He did talk negatively about alot of them when they left though so his insecurity did start to shine through before I left.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[bowser666]

Even if the school doesnt participate. I am sure either your teacher or fellow students might want to go with you for support Hope it works out for you.....

 

[Sukerkin]

Sadly I do not concur with thetruth above.

It may be that such a refusal stems from insecuirty in an instructor, tho' in nearly thirty years of practice I've yet to meet such an entity (I'm wondering if there's a cultural difference at work here?).

An instructor who does not want you to go clouding the issue of what you're learning by attending seminars that are not suitable for you (there's an implicit "yet" in there) is acting in your interests.

For example, in my first year of training, my own iaido sensei requested that we did not dabble in learning Katori iai kata. Was is that he was insecure and holding us back? Hardly. Learning iai is hard enough without muddling yourself up with a different style. A couple of years later, when we were more settled in what we had learnt, sensei brought in a katori instructor to show us and teach us the katori iai so that we could see and understand the differences.

If you don't trust those that teach you in general terms then by all means seek instruction elsewhere - just don't do it for a trivial reason like not being 'allowed' to attend a seminar you want to go to.

 

[Xue Sheng]

If an instructor carries on that you went to a seminar then I'd say find a new school. Only instructors that are insecure won't allow this. Although my old instructor was a tool I did learn some good stuff and he had no problem with me going outside to train elsewhere at the same time or to go to seminars. He had outside instructors into his school for seminars. He did talk negatively about alot of them when they left though so his insecurity did start to shine through before I left.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

Or they are an old Chinese guy that was trained old school and trains old school and does not lighten things up or make it easy because it brings them more money and/or students. Basically he is a hard core traditionalist and I respect that in these day of CMA light that many schools teach or CMA + whatever that ends up different than what it was meant to be. IMO If you do not understand style A going off to a seminar in Style B is just going to mess you up

The gentleman that I speak of is anything but insecure and to be honest if I lived anywhere near is school I would go train with him.

If you train with him long enough and he thinks you have a good enough understanding of what he is trying to teach you, although I do not know this and I am making an assumption here based on my past experience with old Chinese sifus, I am betting he would not care what you did then.

Note: I just walked away from the only Xingyiquan school in my area because the sifu was combining it with western boxing and that is most decidedly not Xingyiquan and to me it shows lack if understanding of the style that a sifu is teaching. If the teacher understands the style he is teaching there should be no need to look for training elsewhere in that style.

EDIT

Also I have gone to check out schools that I was initially impressed by but I walked away from when I saw they “required” you to go to outside seminars. Why should I be required to do that, can’t they teach me the style they claim to teach?

 

[Guardian]

If the school you attend does not participate in seminars and or tournaments is it okay to go your self ?

I would say yes, but as someone stated, you should inform your Instructor/Teacher that you want to attend them and see what they say. If their worth anything in my view, they won't have a problem with it.