Question regarding rank?

[FearlessFreep]

Hence, the Head of Family Sokeship Organization, which is pretty much what that group is composed of. Want to impress each other and look good to the (gullible) masses.

You legitimize me, I'll legitimize you. We'll take that and go make money (as long as we're geographically separated enough not to be competitors)

 

[bowser666]

"Master" - Has high rank, higher ego. Likes the idea of having everyone refer to him as "Master", secretly wants a senior student named "Igor".

"Grand Master" - With all these masters floating around needs a way to distinguish himself as superior to them, it also sounds somewhat more sophisticated as its usually used to refer to really smart guys that play chess.

"Professor" - Is above the idea of being refered to as "Master" as that is silly kung fu movie nonsense, but is still uber-good and wants people to know it, so uses a title that is usually reserved for really smart people with PHds, afterall, he's smarter then all those Phd's when it comes to martial arts. THis title also implies that his skill is intellectual, not physical, so no worries about having to actually do anything physical... like a situp.

"Soke" - All those other titiles are just not good enough to showcase his great powers of awsomeness, a new one is needed that sounds really Japanese and traditional, one that can only be inherited through families going back hundreds of years... thats the sort of title this person prefers, but he can't get it, so he just claims it anyways. Not his fault those Japanese people won't recognize him, they are just jealous of his super-skills anyways.

Hope that clears thigns up

HAHA let's not forget that it also allows HACK instructors self entitlement to teach a style that they made up on a napkin one day at McDonalds

 

[hogstooth]

In the Okinawan or Japanese arts certain titles are given to acknowledge a persons level in the art or to acknowledge their contributions to the art.
Example;
Sensei - teacher
Shihan - Master teacher
Renshi - 4th dan, master or 1st teaching license (later given by board)
Kyoshi - 7th dan, senior master or 2nd teaching license (later given by board)
Hanshi - 9th dan, grand master or 3rd teaching license (later given by board)
Soke - head of art
O-sensei - great teacher or founder of art

But basically the only title that means anything is Sensei which is what we call any teacher whether there rank or anything else. Because that's what they are, a teacher.

 

[JWLuiza]

I love the total bastardization and disservice many schools do the cultural language of the martial arts. For example: Referencing oneself as "Sensei SoandSo". Or I am Luiza Sah Bom Nim. Honorifics are for others to use, not to reference oneself. Oh, and Sensei comes after the name thank you very much.

The titles just are. We tend to read way too much into them and turn them into ugly things.

I also know of an instructor who signed certificates as O-sensei SoandSo. Honestly, I thought he was dead....

 

[pesilat]

Here's the way I personally see it:
Instructor = I have students
Master = My students are instructors
Grandmaster = My students are masters

Same progression as:
Father = I have children
Grandfather = My children have children
Great Grandfather = My children have grandchildren

I look at things like "Professor" the same way. Though the few people I know who use the title "Professor" also have that title in the academic world for one subject or another.

As far as PhD equivalence goes ... why not? A doctor spends 12 years in elementary/high school and another 12 - 15 years of college (counting post grad, internship, etc.) So if someone has 25 - 30 years of training in MA then why shouldn't they be considered equivalent to a PhD in their area of study?

Mike

 

[rmclain]

As far as PhD equivalence goes ... why not? A doctor spends 12 years in elementary/high school and another 12 - 15 years of college (counting post grad, internship, etc.) So if someone has 25 - 30 years of training in MA then why shouldn't they be considered equivalent to a PhD in their area of study?
Mike

I think in martial arts it depend on how they spent those 30 or more years.

There are many, many people in the martial arts world that claim these number of years in training or more, but none of it was consistent. For example, they may have trained for a few years as a child, then didn't train or do much until they were adults - or maybe "played" a bit during those year without any serious training. Then some of these people claim all of those non-active years in between as years of experience. The truth usually comes out when they actual demonstrate something - or don't do anything at all. For these people that are teachers I have to say, "Just because you watch someone else training or point your finger making commands, doesn't mean you are putting forth the sweat and effort yourself."

But, if they genuinely put forth the effort, as stated in the previous post, I absolutely believe the person deserves the recognition.

Here are a few Yudansha titles for the Korean martial arts folk. I know these will vary greatly among Korean MA schools. But, the titles below were told by Master Hong Jong-pyo, founder of the Kangduk-Won in 1956.

Kyosa Nim: For 1st or 2nd dan holders
Sabom Nim: for 3rd or 4th dan holders, or a leader of a dojang that is not yet a master.
Ghosa Nim: Master level (depends on the school). For this lineage, 5th - 8th Dan was used.
Nohsa Nim: Old expert. Usually a Grandmaster. My teacher, Grandmaster Kim Soo, prefers this title for himself.
Dosa Nim: Highest honor.
Doju Nim: Founder.
Kwan Jang Nim: Director, sir.
Jee Kang Jang Nim: Branch school director.


R. McLain

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Personally for myself titles just get in the way of teaching and training. I prefer to just be called Brian even though I have no problem if someone wants to be called something specific to their system. In the end I teach using English and therefore Brian or someone referring to me as an instructor/teacher makes sense.

 

[jks9199]

Personally for myself titles just get in the way of teaching and training. I prefer to just be called Brian even though I have no problem if someone wants to be called something specific to their system. In the end I teach using English and therefore Brian or someone referring to me as an instructor/teacher makes sense.

I agree. Our chief instructor never asked to be called anything more than his name and the academic title he earned. My instructor was always "Joe" to me. I'm generally "Jim" or (to younger students) "Mr. X" Technically, I can be addressed as "saya", which I understand simply means "teacher" and is comparable to "sensei", which in Japan doesn't have lots of the freight that US martial artists have added to it (or so I've read).

 

[morph4me]

So if someone has 25 - 30 years of training in MA then why shouldn't they be considered equivalent to a PhD in their area of study?

I think that would depend if they had 25-30 years of training or 1 year of training 25-30 times.