Question for Instructors

[hardheadjarhead]

Not brainwashed, but loyal in the Master/student-parent/child sense. To him, a 1st Dan from another Instructor means your loyalties will always lie elsewhere. Again, newer generations of Instructors may be more willing to overlook that. Some of them already do things he never did, because he is now more willing to allow independent decisions.


The analogy fails for those, like me, who have adopted children and who have had great success with earning the loyalties of students.

In fourteen years of owning my own school and in the twenty six years I've been teaching I've only had one black belt leave me on bad terms, and he was my student from the start. The instructor with the longest service with me came to me as a black belt from another instructor at eighteen. He is now thirty. Julie Kedzie (check the MMA forum), and her sister Jenny both came to me as black belts from another school ten years ago. They are now third dans and my senior TKD students/instructors. Their loyalty to me is unquestioned.

Exclusionary practices for the purposes of acquiring loyalty reflect an almost paranoid insecurity on the part of the instructor or organization demanding it.


Regards,


Steve

 

[*sic]

Those individuals that do come to a club, personally I think should not walk in expecting to retain any rank they have recieved at a previous club. I myself opted to give up my rank after a period where i was not training in my own club, yet my instructor declined this and i was able to retain it.

those who expect to walk into a new club with a new set of requirements are not what i would call students, as they are are wanting to be recognised at something they may know very little about. (exceptions to this obviously)

but again its always each club / instructor to their own.

i agree with the thinking that students should come speak with the instructor first and be tested and judged to see if they can retain it for the new school.

oh and hey all, this is my first post. :asian:

 

[5 hand swords]

Those individuals that do come to a club, personally I think should not walk in expecting to retain any rank they have recieved at a previous club, those who expect to walk into a new club with a new set of requirements are not what i would call students, as they are are wanting to be recognised at something they may know very little about. (exceptions to this obviously)

but again its always each club / instructor to their own.

i agree with the thinking that students should come speak with the instructor first and be tested and judged to see if they can retain it for the new school.

oh and hey all, this is my first post. :asian:

Welcome and I agree, I enter and look for a broom to sweep floors if I want to join a Dojo without a introduction.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Something I have discovered in 20+ years of practice with a traditional Instructor: he sometimes (or often) practices etiquette that I don't understand because he has not explained yet why he does it. In other words, he has his reasons, which may make perfect sense, he just hasn't told you yet WHY he does them. Kind of like your parents. Very often, you must reach a certain level or Dan rank before he will explain why you should or should not do something.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Something I have discovered in 20+ years of practice with a traditional Instructor: he sometimes (or often) practices etiquette that I don't understand because he has not explained yet why he does it. In other words, he has his reasons, which may make perfect sense, he just hasn't told you yet WHY he does them. Kind of like your parents. Very often, you must reach a certain level or Dan rank before he will explain why you should or should not do something.

Saying to a child "Because I'm the Daddy, that's why," doesn't answer the child's question. Any kid with intelligence recognizes the absurdity of this and is insulted by it.

If the instructor's demands make perfect sense as you suggest, the student deserves an explanation as to how this is so. Granted, rudeness on the mat such as silly challenges to an instructor's authority or knowledge base are not called for...but these are far less common than people are led to believe. There is a difference between a question and questioning--the latter is impertinent contrariness while the former is simple curiosity. Students can learn how to respectfully couch a question and instructors can learn to not be defensive when this is done.

An instructor who says "you haven't reached a level where you would understand" insults the student's intelligence while at the same time admitting he lacks the powers to communicate concepts. He also may very well be hiding technical inadequacies or other professional shortcomings--all behind this veil of exclusionary authority.

For those parents and teachers of martial arts out there I have this exhortation: Give your kids and your students some credit for having brains. Drop the "someday you will understand my son" Wise Master of the Temple schtick and start teaching. Quit demanding that they have blind faith in you and encourage their inquisitiveness. You'll be surprised and pleased with the results.


Regards,


Steve

 

[*sic]

Quit demanding that they have blind faith in you and encourage their inquisitiveness. You'll be surprised and pleased with the results.


Regards,


Steve

exactly, questioning (obviously respectfully) is something that the martial arts is all about, i believe this is what put me above those I trained with while i was a coloured belt, i asked questions, if someone tells me that a technique is very painfull, ill ask why, then get them to do it to me, generally this is only needed to be done once, but as my instructor always said, "you can't claim to know something, unless you have experienced it for yourself" this is something i like to live training by.

ask questions, dont take everything you hear as gospel!

 

[MichiganTKD]

As an Instructor, my job is to teach students the best way possible. Student's job is to learn and practice. If a student is always asking questions, it implies a lack of trust in their Instructor. Sometimes you just have to stop asking questions and trust your Instructors. This is the traditional way. MMA would not understand this, because they practice from a Western standpoint that values technique over tradition and etiquette.
I'm not suggesting blind obedience. I'm saying trust your Instructor as you would your parent. Their job is to lead you on the right path. As you advance and mature, inevitably you will begin to make your own decisions. Part of this will be based on what your Instructor has taught you, part of it on your own ideas.
People may think, based on my responses, that I practice blind obedience to my Instructor. That is not the case. I will hear his opinions, then decide. However, something like Tae Kwon Do etiquette is not open to discussion.
If a color belt from a different school wants to join, it is my decision where to place him, although I will listen to suggestions from Instructors. If a black belt wants to join, there are certain etiquette rules that apply that I must follow.

 

[BrandiJo]

I trust my inst and i ask questions, its how people learn. Trust and faith are all well and good but i believe you never believe something untill its been explain, or shown to you. I am thankful my inst has never given me the excuse of youll understand later excuse cus thats all it is its an excuse to get them out of explaining or teaching something atleast thats how i see it.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Incidentally, I finally found out what my reputation points and what they mean. Yall's opinion means nothing to me. Seeing as how most of you are gup or kyu students anyway, what you think of me is of no consequence.

 

[Adept]

it implies a lack of trust in their Instructor.

No, it implies curiosity. It strikes me as very insecure that an instructor would find some inquisitive students to be dis-respectful.

This is the traditional way. MMA would not understand this, because they practice from a Western standpoint that values technique over tradition and etiquette.

Western training is neither superior or inferior to eastern. An ounce of logic is worth more than a tonne of tradition...

 

[Adept]

Seeing as how most of you are gup or kyu students anyway, what you think of me is of no consequence.

How is that even remotely relevant?

 

[MichiganTKD]

Just thought I'd throw that in.

I believe if you have time to ask questions, you're not practicing enough. Anyway, I don't mind if a student asks how to do something, particularly if it is a technique appropriate to their level. What I do mind is a student who asks "why" we do something, or asks "what would you do if this guy does/did this...?" I will tell you when it is appropriate. If you don't like my answer, study under a MMA Instructor who will teach you anything you want if the price is right.
And yes, I do offer students opportunities to ask questions, albeit not during practice. That doesn't mean they can question everything we do.

 

[Adept]

That doesn't mean they can question everything we do.

If their questions are innapropriate and facetious, then I agree. But if a question is genuine, then it should be answered as honestly as possible. Asking why we do something is very important, since sometimes a simpler, more economical or more effective technique exists. For example; why do a spinning back kick when jabbing your thumb in their eye is easier and more effective?

If someone doesnt understand the applications of a technique, and asks why we learn it, then you should tell them.

 

[TigerWoman]

If everyone waited until the end of class, I would venture to say those questions would not be asked or answered and therefore forgotten. The learning opportunity would be gone. I ask questions all the time. And I get feedback from other students who are newer or more timid that they are glad I asked, because it cleared up a problem. My questions also validate their concerns. Like for instance, we were doing relaxed stretches in the middle of a workout. I could have questioned the instructor as to that not being a good thing then go on with a workout after the muscles have relaxed but I waited to the end of the class so it would not embarrass the instructor. But I would question, a jump twist technique with a bad knee before I did it or others with bad knees did it as well. The instructor who cannot answer a legitimate question about learning the "whys" of Taekwondo or gets ruffled that it puts him on the spot should look to himself as to why he does. He/she, as a master, should know that answer. If the instructor is still in the learning stages to be a master, he should research the answer and get back to the student. The eastern way of not questioning the master is not the western way. We don't live in a bubble and we don't follow blindly. Been there, done that, got hurt, as well as others have. We need to ask questions and they may not always seem to be the most intelligent but no question should be deemed unimportant or even silly especially from adults. For children that is another matter. They tend to want to be the center of attention. But you can usually tell when their questions are going that way. I would have a question period after a new technique is taught though so those who didn't understand have an opportunity.

First of all the instructor is supposed to be a "teacher" not a dictator no matter how much he might think he is, or how "trustworthy" he thinks he is. TW

 

[mj_lover]

Seeing as how most of you are gup or kyu students anyway, what you think of me is of no consequence.

what kind of an instructor are you? are saying that what students think of you doesn't matter? I'm sorry, but that bugs me.

 

[TigerWoman]

He was referring to people of MartialTalk. They/we are not his students. TW

 

[ghostdog2]

I'm an mma student and find this forum very interesting. I do have one question: why, to some, is " mma " code for informal, inadequate or discourteous training? Having studied tma in a very formal school and mma in my present school, I find the manners, attitudes and approach of students and instructors quite similar. Just my personal experience, but I hope it would be the rule not the exception.

 

[Miles]

If everyone waited until the end of class, I would venture to say those questions would not be asked or answered and therefore forgotten. The learning opportunity would be gone. I ask questions all the time. And I get feedback from other students who are newer or more timid that they are glad I asked, because it cleared up a problem. ... TW

Asking questions has a place, in class. TW, I agree with you that sometimes the question you ask is the question which another student does not.

It is important for the instructor to answer questions-if he/she is experienced, /she may have the students attempt a technique/combination, and then take questions. Then it is not disruptive, but enhances the learning. That's the goal of the instructor.

Miles

 

[MichiganTKD]

I offer the opportunity to ask questions after basics are finished, after basic kicking is finished, after forms are finished etc. I don't allow questions DURING each set because to stop to answer questions would disrupt the flow of practice and bring down the students who are trying to concentrate.
After each set is done, I will simply ask them "Does anyone have any questions?" If it is not a simple question, I might meet with them later to discuss it. After all, I really don't want to be there all night answering questions, and we have other things to get to.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Anyway, if you forget the question by the end of class, it couldn't have been that important anyway.