Question about new art

[14 Kempo]

Obviously there is nothing wrong with beginning a new style. How many times has it already been done throughout the years? Would Hawaiian Kempo, as an expample, even exist without someone having taken various arts and combining them ... the answer is NO. Kajukenbo, by its vary name, specifies an collaboration of many styles ... again, nothing wrong with that at all.

The rub comes to proving your style is different and it works. Do the changes you're making work for the majority of people, or for a body type and skillset that matches your own? Many of the styles out there have years upon years of training behind the techniques, they have been tried and tested. Maybe call it your style, but stay true to your main art and teach variations that incorporate the other arts you have studied, nothing wrong with that IMHO.

In any case, good luck with whatever you decide. Keep us posted.

 

[MJS]

Obviously there is nothing wrong with beginning a new style. How many times has it already been done throughout the years? Would Hawaiian Kempo, as an expample, even exist without someone having taken various arts and combining them ... the answer is NO. Kajukenbo, by its vary name, specifies an collaboration of many styles ... again, nothing wrong with that at all.

You know, you bring up a good point, especially with the Kajukenbo. A number of arts rolled into one. However, how long ago was Kaju founded? What about Judo? Kenpo? Goju? I have to wonder how many new styles are being created. Krav Maga has been around for a while, but only recently have I heard of Commando Krav Maga. Is this something new? Did it exist around the same period of time as KM? Not trying to argue with you, just trying to get a better grip on all this.

Take a look at these:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23953

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53094

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24489

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24127


Now, IMHO, judging by the responses of members to these people, its just not worth the headache of creating your own art.

Just my .02

 

[14 Kempo]

You know, you bring up a good point, especially with the Kajukenbo. A number of arts rolled into one. However, how long ago was Kaju founded? What about Judo? Kenpo? Goju? I have to wonder how many new styles are being created. Krav Maga has been around for a while, but only recently have I heard of Commando Krav Maga. Is this something new? Did it exist around the same period of time as KM? Not trying to argue with you, just trying to get a better grip on all this.

Take a look at these:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23953

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53094

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24489

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24127


Now, IMHO, judging by the responses of members to these people, its just not worth the headache of creating your own art.

Just my .02

This is somewhat tongue in cheek and very sarcastic, but here goes ...

I really don't think there is anything to argue about. There can be a discussion regarding this point: If nobody had ever gone out and tried to make changes, begin their own style, would we have any arts at all? It all started somewhere. It all got changed throughout the years. We could all sit back and say if it didn't come from the legendary Bodhidarma, or [enter your person here] it can not be. It isn't pure, it is no good. I have no problem saying that evolution is inevitable and very necessary. If an art is not allowed to grow, it will die.

As a far fetched idea, if I was to remove your eye with a pinkie poke, which I developed through years of bashing my extended pinkie into heavy bags, that was not developed by a GM in any style, is the eye no longer missing, cause the technique is not considered valid? The answer is no, the eye is still missing due to a technique, it is still a real and valid technique.

Personally I don't think anybody will be developing an all new style of things that have never been attempted before, that seems almost impossible. But on the other hand, to stifle free thinkers that have the ability to move from technique to technique from TKD to Muay Tai to Kempo to Judo to Jujitsu to accomplish the task at hand from the varying distances, well IMHO, that's just wrong ... I say, have at it ... and let's call it "Tae Tai Kem Ju Jitsu"

Most NEW styles nowadays are name variations and a different philosophical view of existing techniques from varying angles all with the intent of surviving against an ever growing concern for safety.

Again, just my opinion and with a smile ...

 

[jks9199]

As a sort-of aside...

You might enjoy reading Steve Perry's latest book,
The Musashi Flex, and it might give insight into the idea of creating your own art...

In it, the hero does create an art... but he does it by synthesizing what he's learned from many others. It's an evolution more than something he set out to do... which is, personally, how I'd rather see people start their own styles.

 

[MJS]

This is somewhat tongue in cheek and very sarcastic, but here goes ...

I really don't think there is anything to argue about. There can be a discussion regarding this point: If nobody had ever gone out and tried to make changes, begin their own style, would we have any arts at all? It all started somewhere. It all got changed throughout the years. We could all sit back and say if it didn't come from the legendary Bodhidarma, or [enter your person here] it can not be. It isn't pure, it is no good. I have no problem saying that evolution is inevitable and very necessary. If an art is not allowed to grow, it will die.

As a far fetched idea, if I was to remove your eye with a pinkie poke, which I developed through years of bashing my extended pinkie into heavy bags, that was not developed by a GM in any style, is the eye no longer missing, cause the technique is not considered valid? The answer is no, the eye is still missing due to a technique, it is still a real and valid technique.

Personally I don't think anybody will be developing an all new style of things that have never been attempted before, that seems almost impossible. But on the other hand, to stifle free thinkers that have the ability to move from technique to technique from TKD to Muay Tai to Kempo to Judo to Jujitsu to accomplish the task at hand from the varying distances, well IMHO, that's just wrong ... I say, have at it ... and let's call it "Tae Tai Kem Ju Jitsu"

Most NEW styles nowadays are name variations and a different philosophical view of existing techniques from varying angles all with the intent of surviving against an ever growing concern for safety.

Again, just my opinion and with a smile ...

I suppose the things we should be asking ourselves are: What is the purpose for creating something new? Is what we create going to be anything new and improved from whats already out there? I mean, we could have 5 Kenpoists do a technique and its very possible we'll have 5 variations of the tech. but its still Kenpo right? Like I said, nothing wrong with starting a Kenpo tech. and ending with a joint lock from Aikido, Arnis, etc. That isnt creating a new style though.

 

[tntma12]

Thank you all for your input, it has been much appreciated. I guess I would be looking at not creating a new "superart", but looking to put together the styles that I have trained in together, to compliment each other, and see where they would work together. Instead of teaching 3 seperate styles with strong and weak points, trying to blend them and weed out what I feel is weak from each and expand on that. Like I said, Im not looking to do this over night and realize it will take years and years till it is near ready.

Why do I want to do this? Mostly because I would like to see how these martial arts compliment each other, and from using the aikido as the base, looking to expand from that.

Also, i guess im looking at expressing myself as an artist, teaching only what I have been taught, and always giving credit where its due. Again thank you for all your input, and would welcome more anytime, either through here or pm's.

 

[Mr. E]

I guess I would be looking at not creating a new "superart", but looking to put together the styles that I have trained in together, to compliment each other, and see where they would work together. Instead of teaching 3 seperate styles with strong and weak points, trying to blend them and weed out what I feel is weak from each and expand on that.

I think you should re-read this part of a very excellent post by Flying Crane.

Different arts are often built upon a very different foundation, and their techniques are designed to work on that specific foundation. If the foundation is removed, or a different foundation is substituted, then those techniques just do not work.

So if you mix techs from several arts, what is the foundation you are using as your base? If you decide that you want to use the TKD foundation as your base, I suspect your aikido techs won't work well.

It takes an understanding of the complete art, beginning with the proper foundation, in order for the techs in the art to be effective. Without that complete understanding, the techs and the art don't work.

So what is the base that you are going to build on?

There are ways of generating power and such that differ from art to art. Some arts like TKD build on a base of explosive, snapping power. Others like aikido build on a base of flowing, displacing power. That is just a simple example and there are many others.

What works when built onto a base of one, will be a complete failure with another. That is why trying to close the weak points of a style is a fool's errend in many cases. To do well in one, you have to limit yourself instead of doing half a dozen things poorly. You have to commit to one path, understand the limitations of that path and work around it.

I think that if you want to build a new art, you should try to seek out the best instruction in the arts you already study and just let things evolve. Instead of trying to figure out what new things you can make, try to look at your arts with an new eye. Don't just study the techniques, try to find the base that Flying Crane was talking about and understand why one art does something, and another does something completely different.

If a technique is not working, I would venture that either your understanding of the art is lacking and/or your instructor(s) were not as skilled as they could have been when they taught you. Sad to say, I think that all the arts you listed have had quite a bit of them watered down when they made the jump overseas.

Remember the words of Lao Tzu- the use of a cart will depend on the part of the hub that is not there.

Nothing can be everything to all people. Accept that you can be good at one aspect and understand your limitations.

 

[Independent_TKD]

I would say improve upon your current MA. I practice TKD and have for a long time. BUT, I have also studied Judo, and informally trained in BJJ, Boxing, and Muay Thai with training partners and friends. I took from these other arts to improve my TKD.

Now, it is no longer "textbook" TKD. It is now my own approach to TKD. I cannot claim it as some new style that I created. It is just my approach to the practice of TKD.

I guess an option for all of us is to simply hang a sign on the outside of the training hall that says "Martial Arts". That way, you can add and subtract whatever you want without the politics involved. At the end of the day, you have to be good at what you do. Otherwise, you lose all credibility.

 

[Flying Crane]

I

I practice TKD and have for a long time. BUT, I have also studied Judo, and informally trained in BJJ, Boxing, and Muay Thai with training partners and friends. I took from these other arts to improve my TKD.

Now, it is no longer "textbook" TKD. It is now my own approach to TKD. I cannot claim it as some new style that I created. It is just my approach to the practice of TKD.

I think this is the natural way. When we study more than one art, they are bound to influence each other and that is proper. How you practice all of your arts will definitely change based on these other experiences, so that should not be stifled.

Just be very very careful about how you might start deliberately and systematically mixing and redesigning things. That's where you might run into problems.