question about five swords

[KrayONE]

Were that the case you started to far away.
sean

so if u step inside the eye of the storm your saying the punch should go behind my head? i thought that would only apply to storm attacks, to avoid the whipping of the club.

 

[Touch Of Death]

so if u step inside the eye of the storm your saying the punch should go behind my head? i thought that would only apply to storm attacks, to avoid the whipping of the club.

No, this one too.
Sean

 

[KrayONE]

There are several techniques in the system, in which the ideal phase teaches us to use a Left Extended Outward Block against an incoming right roundhouse. It is a perfectly legitimate, and probably a necessary, self defense move.

You are correct that it is not the self-defense move we learn in Five Swords, but don't rule it out.

I agree, but not being left handed i dont feel comfortable using my left to defend someones right roundhouse. on the other hand im more comfortable using a left inward for a straight punch, i wouldnt of said that earlier in my training though

 

[KrayONE]

No, this one too.
Sean

ok i might be confusing myself, im thinking more along the lines of a hooking roundhouse punch, not a haymaker punch haha.

 

[Blindside]

ok i might be confusing myself, im thinking more along the lines of a hooking roundhouse punch, not a haymaker punch haha.

While I'm not sure what you mean by a "hooking roundhouse," if the punch has any sort of a decent hook, and you are trying to do an ideal phase Five Swords, you've "chosen" the wrong technique. His fist will hit your head about the same time, your right hand will hit his arm, the arm configuration is all wrong for an inward block.

Lamont

 

[MJS]

Most people are not left handed, and imho i would not use any block with my left for an opponents right roundhouse.

Why not? What is your block of choice then?

 

[MJS]

so if u step inside the eye of the storm your saying the punch should go behind my head? i thought that would only apply to storm attacks, to avoid the whipping of the club.

Personally, if I have the chance to move in I'm going to take it. If I can jam the punch I'm going to take advantage of that. Also, keep in mind, that its better to move in asap, so you can execute your defense before the punch gets too far. In other words, lets assume its one of those wide haymakers. Before that punch gets half way, the defender should be doing something.

ok i might be confusing myself, im thinking more along the lines of a hooking roundhouse punch, not a haymaker punch haha.

Hmm...if its that tight of a hook, you'd be better off a) getting off line, b) bob/weave or c) cover the side of your head with your arm and take the hit.

 

[KrayONE]

Why not? What is your block of choice then?

if it were a right hooking roundhouse id try and gauge distance, step back while simultaneously executing a right inward at or below the forearm. now i have not learned a technique yet utilizing a left outward extended, so if u read carefully i said that a left inward used to be very uncomfortable for me, and a left outward extended for me i have no confidence in using it, but if im in between and forced to think of something quickly that is most likely the block ill use lol.

i read someone saying that a roundhouse punch is not suitable for an inward block, so why than Mr. Parker instill Sword of Destruction to go from a right outward extended to a "possible" right inward block for a possible right roundhouse?

 

[KrayONE]

While I'm not sure what you mean by a "hooking roundhouse," if the punch has any sort of a decent hook, and you are trying to do an ideal phase Five Swords, you've "chosen" the wrong technique. His fist will hit your head about the same time, your right hand will hit his arm, the arm configuration is all wrong for an inward block.

Lamont

naw, i have never chosen to do an ideal phase five swords for a hooking roundhouse.

 

[MJS]

if it were a right hooking roundhouse id try and gauge distance, step back while simultaneously executing a right inward at or below the forearm. 1)now i have not learned a technique yet utilizing a left outward extended, so if u read carefully i said that a left inward used to be very uncomfortable for me, and a left outward extended for me i have no confidence in using it, but if im in between and forced to think of something quickly that is most likely the block ill use lol.

1) What about this tech? Look at #2.

Calming The Storm: Right Roundhouse Club

1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right roundhouse club swing.

2. Step your right foot to 12 o'clock into a right neutral bow as you simultaneously execute a left extended outward block to the inside of your attacker's forearm and execute a right vertical punch to your attacker's head.

3. Execute a right palm strike to your attacker's right shoulder and frictionally slide down your attacker's arm, checking it. As you finish the slide, ending at your attacker's forearm, shift into a right forward bow facing 12 o'clock as you take advantage of torque and execute a left vertical punch to your attacker's solar plexus.

4. Shift back into a right neutral bow as you execute a right backfist to your attacker's right ribs.

5. Cross out towards 7:30 taking the weapon with you.

i read someone saying that a roundhouse punch is not suitable for an inward block, so why than Mr. Parker instill Sword of Destruction to go from a right outward extended to a "possible" right inward block for a possible right roundhouse?

Not sure who said that, but I don't believe it was I. Actually, now that I think about it, Arcing Blades, a Tracy tech. is off of a right roundhouse punch. The block for the punch...a right inward block.

 

[KrayONE]

1) What about this tech? Look at #2.

Calming The Storm: Right Roundhouse Club

1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right roundhouse club swing.

2. Step your right foot to 12 o'clock into a right neutral bow as you simultaneously execute a left extended outward block to the inside of your attacker's forearm and execute a right vertical punch to your attacker's head.

3. Execute a right palm strike to your attacker's right shoulder and frictionally slide down your attacker's arm, checking it. As you finish the slide, ending at your attacker's forearm, shift into a right forward bow facing 12 o'clock as you take advantage of torque and execute a left vertical punch to your attacker's solar plexus.

4. Shift back into a right neutral bow as you execute a right backfist to your attacker's right ribs.

5. Cross out towards 7:30 taking the weapon with you.





Not sure who said that, but I don't believe it was I. Actually, now that I think about it, Arcing Blades, a Tracy tech. is off of a right roundhouse punch. The block for the punch...a right inward block.

aww man sorry, ive learned that! i had a brain fart err something... grrr. and i was practicing calming the storm last night at work LOL. I think its my disdain for that technique causing me to leave it out haha. I always found that technique so awkward, going from the left outward extended to the full left verticle punch to the solar plexus, but right side no problem!!! definately going to work on calming the storm!

 

[michaeledward]

KrayOne ...

You will learn other techniques that also use that left extended outward against a right round house.

If the right outward in Sword of Destruction is workable for you, then I am certain with time and practice, you will find the left outward workable for you as well.

 

[Touch Of Death]

if it were a right hooking roundhouse id try and gauge distance, step back while simultaneously executing a right inward at or below the forearm. now i have not learned a technique yet utilizing a left outward extended, so if u read carefully i said that a left inward used to be very uncomfortable for me, and a left outward extended for me i have no confidence in using it, but if im in between and forced to think of something quickly that is most likely the block ill use lol.

i read someone saying that a roundhouse punch is not suitable for an inward block, so why than Mr. Parker instill Sword of Destruction to go from a right outward extended to a "possible" right inward block for a possible right roundhouse?

You keep talking like you are blocking this strike full force. Try jumping in the center without extending your arms. Just cover your head with your left (like in Muay Thai) and as soon as you feel a bump with the right roll out of the inward position into an outward. Just this small little motion should take his head off; if not, hit him with the left.
Sean

 

[Jeff Harvey]

I was always taught that the first move is two inward blocks utilizing the hand sword. The targets for the strikes (again as I was shown) should be the bicep and the the forearm. But apparently my training has been somewhat different from a lot of other's, because every time I post a response, someone flames me about it.

 

[nlkenpo]

I was always taught that the first move is two inward blocks utilizing the hand sword. The targets for the strikes (again as I was shown) should be the bicep and the the forearm. But apparently my training has been somewhat different from a lot of other's, because every time I post a response, someone flames me about it.

I won't flame you :enfo: BUT....

If you look at the angle your body will be in by the time of the block, your left hand couldn't effectively execute an inward block to the forearm.

If you execute inward blocks with the right and left hand simultaniously, they would hit exectly the same spot, now wouldn't they?

If from that position your left hand would have to go towards the forearm, the motion would automatically be outward. If I would have to name the movement involved, it would be an "diagonal outward downward hammerfist" while the method of execution would be "whipping". The right hand would execute a hammering inward block. BTW: I'd choose for a left outward handsword instead of the hammer, but I guess that's personal preference.

Another point is the rotation of the body. While stepping forward into the first move, my body rotates counter clockwise. This rotation supports any right inward arm-basic (in this case a hammering block), but takes away power from a left inward arm-basic. It does support any left outward basic, which would be another reason for using forementioned outward move instead of any attempt to a left inward block.

Just my observation...

Marcel

 

[Dstew]

I have read all the responses to Mr. KrayOne's question about Five Swords. There are many good and practical answers. However if you read what Mr. Parker wrote in his manual for the ideal phase for this technique you will find that he does not say to execute an inward block to the right roundhouse punch. He does say to execute a right inward STRIKE to opponents right punch with your left hand checking. Common sense tells you that the left check should attempt to contact your opponents left arm somewhere between the wrist and elbow with the strike contacting opponents right bicep. And hopefully your timing will allow to to interrupt his attack before it reaches the point of power. In essence you are interrupting your opponent at the beginning or at least in the middle of his sentence.That is why we are stepping into the attack towards 11:00. The same principle applied in Calming the Storm. Mr. Parker did not stipulate what the strike was. So I think either the handsword strike or hammerfist to opponents right punch would be acceptable to Mr. Parker. Again this is just the ideal phase when learning the technique. Use whatever strike you do most effectively. You can call the strike a block if you like, because as stated by someone earlier blocks can be strikes and strikes can be blocks. I remember Mr. Parker saying that whatever works is right.
You have to find the way that works best for you when applying Mr. Parker's teachings.
However as I said the Ideal Phase is to execute an inward strike to opponents left roundhouse punch with the left hand checking. When in your school execute according to your instructors foundational teaching. When in a technique line or in real combat it's your choice ! Mr. Parker's manual is a guideline for you to develope your own style.

 

[Dstew]

Correction :

In my last post I mistakingly said that Mr. Parker did not specify what the first strike is in Five Swords. The name tells it all. The first strike is a handsword strike. With three more handsword strikes in the lower belt version of the technique and the fifth handsword strike in the extension.
Thus you have " Five Swords " !

 

[hongkongfooey]

I've learned Five Swords two different ways. The first way was with two shuto blocks, the second was with a hammering strike to the attacker's forearm. I like the second version better. The double hand sword version is lacking in power on the first shot to the neck because of the short travel from the bicep.

 

[hongkongfooey]

Correction :

In my last post I mistakenly said that Mr. Parker did not specify what the first strike is in Five Swords. The name tells it all. The first strike is a hand sword strike. With three more hand sword strikes in the lower belt version of the technique and the fifth hand sword strike in the extension.
Thus you have " Five Swords " !

You don't need the extension to get five swords. Just change the heel palm/ horizontal thrust to a hand sword to the bridge of the nose, and change the uppercut punch to a hand sword to the ribs (think of parting wings). Just change the weapons. :asian:

 

[Doc]

The technique "Five Swords" has undergone significant changes and revisions over time, depending upon era, lineage, and instructor preferences.

Originally called the "do this, and then later the "Five Count" before techniques were given metaphorical names, it consisted of all open handed "knife-hand" applications, that terminated with a "spear-hand" (Japanese influenced) to the solar plexus, thus using "5 swords."

Later, revised under the Chinese Kenpo influence, the spear-hand became a punch. (Historical Note: some mistakenly call it an "upper-cut" but Mr. Parker termed it an "Inverted Horizontal.") but the name remained unchanged.

Later versions added additional movements after the strike to the body that brought the attacker downward, with a finishing hand-sword to the back of the neck, and it became "Seven Swords."

Than the open handed blocks were replaced with closed hands, the finger thrust to the eyes became a heel-palm, but was still counted as an open handed move so it once again was back to "Five Swords."

Than the "extension" came along (so to speak) and it became "Seven Swords" for some, and "Five Swords plus extension" for others, depending upon lineage. The base concept today remains unchanged for many, and regardless of the number of "swords" actually used, the technique remains a staple of the Ed Parker influenced arts as "Five Swords."

Everything always depends upon who taught you, when they taught you, and what they wanted to teach you.