question about five swords

[KrayONE]

wats up guys. Im relatively new here but sometimes come by for a lil read now and then. But something has been bugging me the past few days on the technique five swords. when you step forward with your inward block and u have ur left hand as a check, where exactly is this positional check meant to be? since its not supposed to be a strike to the inside of the wrist what if u miss w ur inward block and ur opponents roundhouse puch knocks ur own check hand into ur own face? I thought everything at a 45 is stronger so if u leave it close to u its weak, please correct me if im wrong. Thanks Guys!

 

[Blindside]

wats up guys. Im relatively new here but sometimes come by for a lil read now and then. But something has been bugging me the past few days on the technique five swords. when you step forward with your inward block and u have ur left hand as a check, where exactly is this positional check meant to be? since its not supposed to be a strike to the inside of the wrist what if u miss w ur inward block and ur opponents roundhouse puch knocks ur own check hand into ur own face? I thought everything at a 45 is stronger so if u leave it close to u its weak, please correct me if im wrong. Thanks Guys!

You should be moving inside arc of the punch, if you miss the inward block, your left hand gets to deal with a lower power shot than if you stayed in place. Also you have the left in place to absorb the shot should you miss, there is nothing wrong with tucking that left arm against the side of your head in a high gaurd.

If you were going to deal with the attack primarily with the left you would position the left hand differently.

Lamont

PS: Could you please type in full words "u" and "ur" are really annoying.

 

[michaeledward]

First things first ... Don't miss your block.

There are several thoughts about where the left hand should be.

Some people say that the right hand is in the high zone, so the left hand should be covering the middle zone. I can buy that.

Some people say that the right hand should be blocking at the forearm, and the left hand should be right next to the right hand, blocking at the wrist. This puts the left hand in a great place for the heel palm. I can buy that, too.

I don't know what you mean about the '45', unless you're talking Colt.

Either way ... welcome. and keep training.

 

[KrayONE]

thanks for the quick replies! what i mean about 45, its everything is stronger at a 45 degree angle ie: upward blocks, inward blocks, extended outward blocks, so with that the left hand that is a positional check and not an actual block or anything its said to be kept close to you, but it would be weak, in case you DO miss with your right inward block

 

[Jim Hanna]

Well, you're right that the classical inward block should be done to a 45, i.e. 10:30 and that it is the strongest of the inward block variations.

However, if you step into 12:00 and execute a classic inward block, you will not be able to block at the brachioradialis muscle/radial nerve UNLESS you're uke starts too far back--which is what often happens.

So, you have a choice: you can step in and do an inward block to 9:00 which will attack the biceps but you must then use the left hand to block the forearm. The inward block is not as strong, of course.

Or, you can do a cutting inward strike i.e. block at the biceps and cut or rake through.

Or, you can do a classical inward block by stepping in and striking the brachial plexus tie in at the deltoid/pec.

So many variations--the one thing that I dislike though is when the uke starts so far back that, in actuality, the kenpo practitioner does not even have to block. As long as he does not move, then the punch won't reach him.

Jim

 

[michaeledward]

I would not, personally, spend my time worrying about a 45.

I would be paying attention to a) establishing my base, b) facing my work, and c) having a complimentary angle to the incoming attack.

 

[Ray]

when you step forward with your inward block and u have ur left hand as a check, where exactly is this positional check meant to be? since its not supposed to be a strike to the inside of the wrist

Every block is a strike. Every strike is a block. I teach beginner's to block with the forearm, and as they gain experience and expertise they find they can block with a hammerfist or a handsword.

 

[ChadWarner]

wats up guys. Im relatively new here but sometimes come by for a lil read now and then. But something has been bugging me the past few days on the technique five swords. when you step forward with your inward block and u have ur left hand as a check, where exactly is this positional check meant to be? since its not supposed to be a strike to the inside of the wrist what if u miss w ur inward block and ur opponents roundhouse puch knocks ur own check hand into ur own face? I thought everything at a 45 is stronger so if u leave it close to u its weak, please correct me if im wrong. Thanks Guys!

Attack the attack. The attack can be at the bicept and inside of the wrist. Accompanied by said movements is the step forward, important because the step is in part designed to control depth of penetraition by your opponent. The reason why the opponents hand even touches you is because you are not controlling his depth of penetraition. Hard to say exactly what the problem is without seeing it though. Just my best guess though- take action sooner, might just be that you are waiting too long.

 

[KrayONE]

Attack the attack. The attack can be at the bicept and inside of the wrist. Accompanied by said movements is the step forward, important because the step is in part designed to control depth of penetraition by your opponent. The reason why the opponents hand even touches you is because you are not controlling his depth of penetraition. Hard to say exactly what the problem is without seeing it though. Just my best guess though- take action sooner, might just be that you are waiting too long.

I'm talking about the opponents roundhouse punch knocking my own check hand into my face, if i somehow do NOT block with my initial inward block/ inward hammer fist or whatever floats your boat here, just wondering your guys' opinions on where this left check hand should be positioned. again thanks for all your input, very fast input...

 

[MJS]

I learned this technique with 2 knife hand blocks to the punching arm. One thing to keep in mind is to begin your defense before the punch gets past the half way point. Considering I'm moving in and not back on this technique, I don't want to rely on just one hand to block the punch.

 

[ChadWarner]

I'm talking about the opponents roundhouse punch knocking my own check hand into my face, if i somehow do NOT block with my initial inward block/ inward hammer fist or whatever floats your boat here, just wondering your guys' opinions on where this left check hand should be positioned. again thanks for all your input, very fast input...

Yes and controlling his depth of penetraition (meaning how far you let him step forward and or turn his upper body into you) can be crucial. The further in he steps and turns his upper body the more power you have to deal with. Think of it like when a quarter back gets his arm bumped right before he releases the ball. His power stroke is diminished, the ball doesnt go as far and falls into enemy hands. I am thinking you are allowing too much power to come your way. Find the path of least resistance, meaning cut his circle in half. Step in before your opponent steps all the way in or, and I say or, gets to the end of his power stroke by completing the rotation of his upper body into you. This should alleviate the force of the round punch thereby cancelling the oppenents ability to move your hands in any direction.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I learned this technique with 2 knife hand blocks to the punching arm. One thing to keep in mind is to begin your defense before the punch gets past the half way point. Considering I'm moving in and not back on this technique, I don't want to rely on just one hand to block the punch.

I'm with MJS on this one. I learned (and teach) two chops to the arm...one at bicep and one at forearm. I figure you're in the neighborhood, why not go for some limb destruction?

 

[KrayONE]

I'm with MJS on this one. I learned (and teach) two chops to the arm...one at bicep and one at forearm. I figure you're in the neighborhood, why not go for some limb destruction?

Yeah thats how instructors at my studio teach five swords, but if i am not mistaken Mr. Parker taught five swords with an inward block only and left hand checking. Mr. Wedlake on this clip mentions that using two chops to the arm is a different technique (defying the storm) and deviates from some specific principles and concepts when its changed to two strikes or blocks to the arm. For example Mr. Wedlake adds that using the left hand as a block or strike to the wrist brings your next strike out of the line of sight, and travels more, and economy of motion suffers. Again more of your thoughts!

 

[Blindside]

Yeah thats how instructors at my studio teach five swords, but if i am not mistaken Mr. Parker taught five swords with an inward block only and left hand checking. Mr. Wedlake on this clip mentions that using two chops to the arm is a different technique (defying the storm) and deviates from some specific principles and concepts when its changed to two strikes or blocks to the arm. For example Mr. Wedlake adds that using the left hand as a block or strike to the wrist brings your next strike out of the line of sight, and travels more, and economy of motion suffers. Again more of your thoughts!

If my back hand is going to be the primary on the defense, my front hand won't be going after a target on the arm. In this case, I'd just use a left extended outward and at the same time try to thrust a forearm into the neck going for a brachial stun.

Lamont

 

[KrayONE]

If my back hand is going to be the primary on the defense, my front hand won't be going after a target on the arm. In this case, I'd just use a left extended outward and at the same time try to thrust a forearm into the neck going for a brachial stun.

Lamont

Most people are not left handed, and imho i would not use any block with my left for an opponents right roundhouse. I'm more looking for ideal phase thoughts, lets stay on topic.

 

[Blindside]

Most people are not left handed, and imho i would not use any block with my left for an opponents right roundhouse. I'm more looking for ideal phase thoughts, lets stay on topic.

Who's ideal phase? I've seen Five Swords taught very similar to what I describe (handsword to the neck instead of my use of the forearm), and I think its become a standard with the AKKI.

Lamont

 

[michaeledward]

Most people are not left handed, and imho i would not use any block with my left for an opponents right roundhouse. I'm more looking for ideal phase thoughts, lets stay on topic.

There are several techniques in the system, in which the ideal phase teaches us to use a Left Extended Outward Block against an incoming right roundhouse. It is a perfectly legitimate, and probably a necessary, self defense move.

You are correct that it is not the self-defense move we learn in Five Swords, but don't rule it out.

 

[Ray]

Most people are not left handed, and imho i would not use any block with my left for an opponents right roundhouse. I'm more looking for ideal phase thoughts, lets stay on topic.

In General, since I'm a lefty I would much rather block with my right and strike simultaneously with my left; But 5 swords doesn't teach us that, it teaches us a two-handed simultaneous blocks (if that's the way your teacher teaches it).

Else it teaches left block with a right strike to the head of the humerous, or one of various alternatives.

 

[KenG]

i learned it with two chop blocks one to the forearm one to the bicep but as with any technique that is just the way we are taught to learn it.. there is countless ways to change it due to different situations...

 

[Touch Of Death]

I'm talking about the opponents roundhouse punch knocking my own check hand into my face, if i somehow do NOT block with my initial inward block/ inward hammer fist or whatever floats your boat here, just wondering your guys' opinions on where this left check hand should be positioned. again thanks for all your input, very fast input...

Were that the case you started to far away.
sean