Question about "being ready to open a dojo"

[Gerry Seymour]

I am not saying many instructors are making a living on it. I am saying it is hard to believe most of the instructors are not making some money (=making money out, right?). And I said I know people (and I know very little) living on it as extreme examples.

In my first month teaching, I was making money for my organisation and for me (50/50) with a few students. (Ok, all my earnings I put back on my own training and equipment, fuel... but it was from the first month.) So how to believe people in the market for decades and/or dozens of student don't make some money?
Ok, I put a lot of money and time on my own training before having some earnings. But after decades still not making some money overall? You don't know no one making some money, really?

Ok, you may say it is like this. I will not argue more about that. It is since a while no more about 'requirements to open a dojo'. Perhaps about 'requirements to keep the door open'... New thread to come?

To give you an idea, I think at my current rates I'd need about 30-40 students to break even on equipment costs, insurance, rent, etc. Since I can only reasonably do about 25 students in a class, and would expect two classes per student per week, I'd need 4 classes to even break even. That's the max number of classes I can currently offer, so break-even is really my end game. I've been using cheap equipment and free space, and in a year I've made no personal income from my program. Granted, my current program is VERY small, but costs add up fast. Just my cheapo mats (which may last another 6-12 months) cost me about $1,000 and some hours of personal time to make them more usable.

 

[Tez3]

I'm sure there are people who make 'some' money and people who earn a living at teaching martials arts ( why shouldn't they?) I just don't know them. I know people in my own style but know very few in TKD, Shotokan, Kenpo, WC etc etc. I know a good many people in the MMA world, they don't take classes. So my not knowing anyone who makes a living at it does not mean I'm a liar, it means I don't know anyone. I don't know any Olympic skiers or ice skaters either or football players, know some rugby and cricket ones though. I know the UK is a small place but I don't know all the martial artists in it, how ridiculous.

Oh and marques, I'm waiting for your apology for calling me a liar btw.

 

[realg7]

To give you an idea, I think at my current rates I'd need about 30-40 students to break even on equipment costs, insurance, rent, etc. Since I can only reasonably do about 25 students in a class, and would expect two classes per student per week, I'd need 4 classes to even break even. That's the max number of classes I can currently offer, so break-even is really my end game. I've been using cheap equipment and free space, and in a year I've made no personal income from my program. Granted, my current program is VERY small, but costs add up fast. Just my cheapo mats (which may last another 6-12 months) cost me about $1,000 and some hours of personal time to make them more usable.

What do you teach? Most tactical arts schools around here are charging 100-120$ a month per student. I'll likely charge 70....and break even...dang, perhaps Mobile Private lessons to the rich folks is the way to go

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[marques]

Oh and marques, I'm waiting for your apology for calling me a liar btw.

Apologies. I would've said "kidding" or something like that, something softer, but still showing surprise.
Sometimes I feel people does (says) anything to have 'reason'. Apologies again, since it was not the case here.

 

[Andrew Green]

** near me, 2 clubs offer birthday parties. Is it normal?!? lol

I run birthday parties, they are awesome and a lot of fun. Why wouldn't a school run birthday parties if they teach kids?

 

[Andrew Green]

What do you teach? Most tactical arts schools around here are charging 100-120$ a month per student. I'll likely charge 70....and break even...dang, perhaps Mobile Private lessons to the rich folks is the way to go

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Why would you want to be the cheapest? And the whole break even thing is fine if that is your only goal, but schools price the way they do for a reason, at $70 you are seriously limiting your growth and ability to serve your clients.

 

[realg7]

Why would you want to be the cheapest? And the whole break even thing is fine if that is your only goal, but schools price the way they do for a reason, at $70 you are seriously limiting your growth and ability to serve your clients.

Maybe I'll do that as an introductory rate for the first 20 students or so?

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[Tez3]

Apologies. I would've said "kidding" or something like that, something softer, but still showing surprise.
Sometimes I feel people does (says) anything to have 'reason'. Apologies again, since it was not the case here.

Apology accepted. Most styles in the UK tend to stay within their own, we don't really have big mixed style competitions or many seminars where styles mix. Iain Abernethy does seminars where you get people from different styles though but we don't talk about how clubs/classes are run or whether anyone makes money out of teaching, too busy training then off to our respective homes. I know a TKD instructor on here who has a school but I don't know how he runs it, it's never come up. I've seen ads for a couple of chains of schools but I again don't know how the schools are run, I suspect as a part time job, it's unlikely to be a money spinner unless you are in charge of the chain and get people to open under you, like franchising or pyramid selling I suppose.

 

[marques]

I run birthday parties, they are awesome and a lot of fun. Why wouldn't a school run birthday parties if they teach kids?

That is business wise. That is ok and from the recent data here, perhaps a real need.
But teaching kids? Martial arts? That in a strict sense is more about killing than fitness and fun... Wich ages? Ok, probably it is also a need, because if 'we' don't include kids, who left? So 'we' teach kids a softer and fun program (kids I am thinking of below ~10 years). Business wise.

Just it is not what I have in mind when thinking about martial arts school: 1 person performing a kata with the other people is clapping hands in a circle, fitness as the main thing, poor teaching, birthday parties... But the demand exists. I keep my (fantastic?) concept that perhaps don't exist on Earth and perhaps the way to exist is to be less than ideal... (according to my ideal, if nothing else)

My critics are nothing personal. Just a sum of bad experiences searching the masters in Paris. After that I found good things in Aberdeen. Now, near Peak District you imagine sheep don't do martial arts. And surely I will find my place, anyway. Just need time and a few bad (or funny) experiences in the way.

I stopped complaining, right now.

 

[Tez3]

After that I found good things in Aberdeen.

You are lucky, I hated the place and left as soon as I could and never came back.

Now, near Peak District you imagine sheep don't do martial arts.

You have to watch sheep, they actually do kill people. It's assumed they are docile, they aren't at lambing time and the rams certainly aren't docile.

As for Derbyshire instructors and clubs have a look on here for a good one. Club Listing | The British Combat Association

 

[Andrew Green]

That is business wise. That is ok and from the recent data here, perhaps a real need.
But teaching kids? Martial arts? That in a strict sense is more about killing than fitness and fun... Wich ages? Ok, probably it is also a need, because if 'we' don't include kids, who left? So 'we' teach kids a softer and fun program (kids I am thinking of below ~10 years). Business wise.

I've been in this coming up on 30 years, it has always been about fitness and fun to me, never killing. I'm not military, don't think I will ever kill anyone. Martial arts have always been about sport. They are not military arts, certainly not most empty hand arts. All the way back to ancient greece we know they where olympic events. China certainly had competitions, Japan as well.

It does make good business sense to have parties, but it also makes sense in terms of building the culture in your school. Even in the "adult only" places and seminars I've trained at, people partied together. After a big seminar we'd all go out for dinner or drinks. After a testing day their would be a after party. Kids need their social events too.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What do you teach? Most tactical arts schools around here are charging 100-120$ a month per student. I'll likely charge 70....and break even...dang, perhaps Mobile Private lessons to the rich folks is the way to go

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I teach an art called Nihon Goshin Aikido (Shojin-ryu is my own off-shoot of the art). I charge $50/month to new students, and less with family discounts. All of my current students joined before rates reached $50, and I make a point of not raising a student's rates.

 

[marques]

I teach an art called Nihon Goshin Aikido (Shojin-ryu is my own off-shoot of the art). I charge $50/month to new students, and less with family discounts. All of my current students joined before rates reached $50, and I make a point of not raising a student's rates.

Why that? Inflation will kill you (your school) at some point in time. Better low and slow increases than suddenly.
It seems you are below the market price. (Am I right?) Why that?

PS: My first school made the same point. And then they could not keep their word and I was not happy with that. Then older students were paying a bit less than new ones to soften that issue. Then I discovered I was paying more than newer students for years. Not happy again (Furthermore, the instructor said it was my fault!). I like one rate for all (individuals). Discount for families or special groups. All as clear as possible.

 

[Tez3]

Why that? Inflation will kill you (your school) at some point in time. Better low and slow increases than suddenly.
It seems you are below the market price. (Am I right?) Why that?

PS: My first school made the same point. And then they could not keep their word and I was not happy with that. Then older students were paying a bit less than new ones to soften that issue. Then I discovered I was paying more than newer students for years. Not happy again (Furthermore, the instructor said it was my fault!). I like one rate for all (individuals). Discount for families or special groups. All as clear as possible.

It depends on whether he's running it as a business or just to teach and needs to charge enough to cover all the costs. Many people, my gym too, doesn't run as a business just as a club. We just charge enough to cover costs not to make a profit.
There is also the thing that people don't value anything they get for free, which why we aren't free as much as anything. There's no reason why martial arts instructors shouldn't be paid for teaching, they will have spent considerable time, effort and money on their own training, to recoup some of those costs back by passing on their skills and knowledge isn't immoral, it's sound common sense.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

How much is the insurance for teaching MA? Is it based on the number of students, or a general rate? I am considering teach in a part but honestly don't feel experienced enough at 23 to teach...still, it would be useful to know the costs, so that I do not go bankrupt trying to teach others kenpo/kempo.

 

[Buka]

In your opinion what are the minimum requirements and or credentials one should have before opening up a dojo to instruct tactical Arts? Should we go by rank , actual experience in training measured by years, or experience in the practical application of these arts in life or death situations?

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What kind of dojo are we talking about? A full time, rent a space in a commercial building and signing a lease?
Or acquiring a space somewhere in which to teach whatever it is that you teach?

 

[realg7]

What kind of dojo are we talking about? A full time, rent a space in a commercial building and signing a lease?
Or acquiring a space somewhere in which to teach whatever it is that you teach?

Renting a space in a strip mall

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[Tez3]

Renting a space in a strip mall

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It has been explained to me what this is but I still giggle when I read this, my mind always thinks it's something else!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why that? Inflation will kill you (your school) at some point in time. Better low and slow increases than suddenly.
It seems you are below the market price. (Am I right?) Why that?

PS: My first school made the same point. And then they could not keep their word and I was not happy with that. Then older students were paying a bit less than new ones to soften that issue. Then I discovered I was paying more than newer students for years. Not happy again (Furthermore, the instructor said it was my fault!). I like one rate for all (individuals). Discount for families or special groups. All as clear as possible.

My philosophy is that long-term students should pay less than short-term students. So, once a student joins, I keep them at that rate. When a new student joins, they pay whatever my rate is at that point, so if I had the regular churn of the average program (I neither gain nor lose at the average rate), then most of my students would be in the first rank or two, and most would be paying my current rate, while the most senior students would be paying less. I expect more of senior students (helping maintain, participating in demos and seminars, mentoring newer students), so I don't want to charge them as much. Inflation drives new student fees, not old student fees.

And, yes, I'm well below market average for my area, because I don't have the costs of a school (my current space is free). If I had to move to a paid space, I'd have to consider raising rates slightly even for my current students.

 

[Buka]

Strip malls can be good, or not, depends on the deal, the lease, the population of the surrounding area, parking, the landlord etc. And, believe it or not, the window. (curb appeal)

To start - I'll tell you what I tell everyone, if you really love Martial arts training, don't ever open a dojo. EVER! Because your training goes out the window, as it should, because your students, and your business/lease will become the primary focus. Your own training becomes an afterthought.

Okay, back to your original OP, requirements. I'm going to take it as a given, your ability to teach and sell yourself to the public.

Number one is money. Have to have enough of it to start, not just to open, but to take you through the first six months. Number two is an attorney, he has to go over the lease and the town/city, county rules and laws.

It would help if you had building inspector or a friend in the trades that could check out the things that guys like you and me don't readily see at first glance. It would help a great deal if you could find and talk to the last tenant, find out what the bills were for electricity, heat, ect. (and how the landlord is) You have to check your insurance options and find their cost. You really NEED to figure out what your monthly nut is going to be. Every penny of it.

You need an attorney to read over the lease, an attorney for your taxes (and have one of them draw up what people sign when they join)

Figure out what your start up costs are going to be, from decoration, office supplies (as much or as little as they're going to be) equipment costs to start, uniforms for your clientèle, and anything else you're going to tell them they need. You need to see where they can get those things themselves and make sure you're prices are at least competitive. You'll need a first aid kit, bathroom supplies, cleaning supplies etc.

You'll need a marketing plan and sufficient funds to carry it out. It's not a good idea to just sit and wait for people to drop in. Give some thought to your window and front door. You do not want them to be "tough guy" intimidating, you want them to be welcoming. Design a plan for kids. A kids class can pay the rent. Parents spend money on their kids, often, more than they spend on themselves. Consider a fitness class for moms, market accordingly - make it friendly, upbeat and accessible time wise.

You'll want to make a good first impression and get in good with whatever businesses are beside you, their word of mouth can help, especially if they've been there a while.

There's more, but that's probably enough requirements to think about out of the gate. And these things really are "requirements".