Q an A
- Thread starter Goldendragon7
- Start date
cdhall
Master Black Belt
I get the feeling that eventually I will be admonished to quit quoting Mr. Speakman, but I always try to attribute my sources.
Mr. Conatser has a great answer but an explanation that I often use comes from my 1st or 2nd Seminar with Mr. Speakman:
"The goal of Kenpo is to do the most amount of damage in the least amount of time, with the least amount of effort."
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RCastillo
Guest
Geez, I never thought about that. That means I owe him one!:snipe2:
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RCastillo
Guest
For once, a serious question here. If I gave such an explanation, don't you think people might be taken ababck, turned off by a definition like that? Just curious.:asian:
cdhall
Master Black Belt
I think if you look, you'll see that was one of my most brief posts. I may have made a mistake consciously trying to be so brief.
If you were trying to sell them painting, or dance, or Tae Bo lessons, I think there would a potential issue. But if you are talking to someone about "What type of Martial Art is Kenpo?" Then I think you are OK.
I also often then say that we have an Equation Formula and I may discuss for example how 5 Swords can be you slapping them stupid, or you striking the Radial nerve on your way to poke their eyes and then break their neck. We have options. Aikido I think seeks to restrain the agressor and admonish him to see the error of his ways (there is a good post in the Aikido thread where a guy did this to someone who attacked him with a bottle while he was on duty one night in a 7-11) but as Mr. Speakman said, I have to paraphrase a bit "... if you are on the street, and some guy is coming at you whacked out on Crack, with a high-pain threshold, then sometimes you have to cripple them to stop them..." and it is in this type of situation, when a layman might think to himself "Man, I wish I knew Karate" that knowing Kenpo may save your life.
So, it depends on the circumstances. But that was a phrase I do indeed use in the course of discussing Kenpo. I also discuss how it is a Science, how the Equation Formula gives you options, how the system was created in the 50's based on what Mr. Parker knew about the street and that it was continually revised to stay current and effective until his death in 1990.
So maybe if you guys were talking in the mall and I overheard you and dropped by and said "...most amount of damage, least amount of effort..." and walked off, that would be one thing.
But to communicate how Kenpo can save your butt, how it will, perhaps like Aikido, use the attacker against himself (borrowed force and so on), how when there is an emergency in the Parking Lot as someone attacks you as you and your wife and kids get in the car (especially if you see more than one person) it can allow you to drop one attacker as you fly into and perhaps even demorallize the others, I think the quote works pretty good.
I don't watch much of the Mixed Martial Arts stuff, but I still think that all things being equal, in any altercation, Kenpo can get you out faster, with less chance of you being hurt, than any other system. Regard for the safety of the attacker notwithstanding.
I hope that helps clarify my point. As Mr. LaBounty is fond of saying, Kenpo is a "Martial Art." And he likes to emphasize "Martial." Perhaps when explaining I lean too much in that direction. I also think that if you do forms and sets for 30mins, you have a better system than TaeBo and that therefore Kenpo has the basis for a great "Cardio Karate" program as well. It's all in there. But if someone is pressing me, they usually want to know why Kenpo is better for self-defense than "Brand X" and I think more damage/less time/less effort is a good answer to that question.
:asian:
I must preface my comments here with this, this is not a personal attack! please do not think it is. I have been in the Martial Arts a considerable amount of time. When you are talking to someone who is uneducated about what we do, do NOT go into so much depth, you will overwhelm and scare them. Instead of saying "cause the most amount of damage with the least amount of effort" you can phrase it like "to defend yourself in the most effective manner, with the least amount of force". Now, granted SOME people like the violence of the world today and will react to what you said well. But what about the Church going mother of 5? Or the Police Officer that wants to enhance his training? See what I mean? Like my Daddy always said, "Never miss a good opportunity to shut up." And what that means is, once you get the point across, shut up and let them ask questions or you will, in fact, oversell/overwhelm them and loose their interest. The one thing all of us here have in common, regardless of style, is a passion for the Martial Arts. Not everyone has that passion and some have to be brought around slowly. I stand by what I said earlier, I did not mis-interpret you. the other thing you have to consider, as an instructor, you are responsible for the actions of your students. You, Mr C and I can have a lengthy conversation on this, and you make valid points,
G
GouRonin
Guest
I can't remember the last time I was attacked by a crazy crack-high guy on the street with a high pain threshold. Or even the last time I had someone attack me in the parking lot as my wife and kids got into the car.
In fact these scenarios, should they happen, should make you wonder how you missed all the indicators of it going to happen in the first place.
Joe Average is going to use his martial arts skills in situations like this maybe once in a lifetime. Often martial arts schools and instructors use these situations to justify the training they do or to scare students into joining/staying at their schools. These situations they come up with, sheesh.
With few exceptions the people on this board will not be pro fighters. Will not be in S.W.A.T. situations, will not be having to face down crack users etc etc.
Don't get me wrong. I like violence. But I also know when it's coming and where and why etc etc. Because I try to look for it. It doesn't mean I will join in. If I'm backed into a corner by mr crackhead then obviously I have to wonder what kinda dork I am to let myself get there.
On the other hand I wonder how you can think that forms and sets will do you better than Tae Bo? I'm no Tae Bo fan but it's got better Cardio than forms and sets. In fact, if broken down properly it's got the same applied fighting motion. Just because they might not know how or why they are doing it doesn't mean they can't learn to and incorperate it into their work out. In fact, I've seen lots of karateka who have no idea what their own forms and sets are about. Perhaps both can be broken down and learned to equal or perhaps more in terms of a martial art.
While I again say I am not a Tae Bo fan the resulting crowds that it has drawn to the martial arts should tell you something. People might start off at a TB class and then progress into a more traditional martial art.
Just my 3 cents.
In fact these scenarios, should they happen, should make you wonder how you missed all the indicators of it going to happen in the first place.
Joe Average is going to use his martial arts skills in situations like this maybe once in a lifetime. Often martial arts schools and instructors use these situations to justify the training they do or to scare students into joining/staying at their schools. These situations they come up with, sheesh.
With few exceptions the people on this board will not be pro fighters. Will not be in S.W.A.T. situations, will not be having to face down crack users etc etc.
Don't get me wrong. I like violence. But I also know when it's coming and where and why etc etc. Because I try to look for it. It doesn't mean I will join in. If I'm backed into a corner by mr crackhead then obviously I have to wonder what kinda dork I am to let myself get there.
On the other hand I wonder how you can think that forms and sets will do you better than Tae Bo? I'm no Tae Bo fan but it's got better Cardio than forms and sets. In fact, if broken down properly it's got the same applied fighting motion. Just because they might not know how or why they are doing it doesn't mean they can't learn to and incorperate it into their work out. In fact, I've seen lots of karateka who have no idea what their own forms and sets are about. Perhaps both can be broken down and learned to equal or perhaps more in terms of a martial art.
While I again say I am not a Tae Bo fan the resulting crowds that it has drawn to the martial arts should tell you something. People might start off at a TB class and then progress into a more traditional martial art.
Just my 3 cents.
(* First, an apology if my post upsets or bothers anyone. *)
Hey Gou,
I agree with you on this issue. The last time I
dealt with a Crack head who was high? that felt
no pain, was years and years ago when I was
bouncing. I helped the Police officer I had
called in to deal with the problem when he
was on the ground losing and also getting bit by
this crack head guy. His wrist broke when I had
him pinned and he lifted me of the ground with
just one arm. Scary. But, truly how man people
see this. I know Police officers that have never
run into this.
I agree that the good martial artist would have
seen the situation before hand and avoided it.
How ever the person enters into Martial Arts
is irrelevant. The fact that they are their
for some reason is what counts.
In My opinion.
Rich :asian:
PS: Gou I will try not to make it a habit to agree
with you that often.
B
brianhunter
Guest
Here is my question, howcome you never hear anyone speak of Larry Tatum when people mention Kenpo seniors or prominent instructors? I have some old black belt magazine articles and it seemed like Mr. Parker thought highly of him, high enough to even say "he moves like me".......he even called him his "key protege' " in this article. Why is he never mentioned or considered??
ikenpo
Black Belt
Email is a hard thing to use to convey a message. Doug is pretty sharp (both of the Dougs are actually), I don't think he'd break off into a mini-seminar on what Kenpo is for the off the street person. I think the definition he is giving is what he might say to white belts that are already in class and say "hey Mr. Brown belt how would you define this Kenpo stuff we're doing". Of course I could be wrong.
Most of the time it takes longer to explain something when you don't know what your talking about or if your using other folks' words. My thing (and I'm not an instructor) is that explaining Kenpo will never do it justice. If you want to come and see, cool. If you like what you see and hear, cool. If you don't and I never see you again, cool. If you never get up the nerve to actually come over and check it out (which is often the case), that's cool too.
jb :asian:
ikenpo
Black Belt
Gou,
In this case I don't entirely agree with you. Without going into discussion on class and social issues. Some neighborhoods in the US are pretty bad and drugs are very bad in the US. And, Sometime people don't have a choice of where they can afford to live. Larger cities like Houston, Los Angeles, New York have predators that prey on people at night and during the day all over the city. And for all my training and awareness of my environment I still think that in a given situation someone might catch me slippin so I prepare and condition for that. To say without a doubt its someone's fault if they get caught off guard is a lot like blaming the victim. Isn't Kenpo designed to take into account room for error?
"Often martial arts schools and instructors use these situations to justify the training they do or to scare students into joining/staying at their schools. "
In the big cities you don't have to do that. Let them go home and watch the evening news for a week.
The Tae Bo thing is a funny topic. I think their workout is great and very effective in weight loss, but you can still get the same kind of workout doing a combination of basics and forms in Kenpo. The only difference when they get into an actual fight is that they have to turn on the music before they can actually get started...:rofl:
jb:asian:
p.s. I respect Billy Blanks, he took what he accomplished in the square and made the most of it.
G
GouRonin
Guest
Kewl. You stated your reasons and some of them are pretty darn good.
G
GouRonin
Guest
Like I always say, even a monkey falls out of a tree sometimes. Now you see the burden it is to be me.
**dramatic sigh**
Kempojujutsu
Master Black Belt
GD7,
Welcome Back, how was your trip.
Bob:asian:
Welcome Back, how was your trip.
Bob:asian:
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RCastillo
Guest
Luckily for me, I'm afraid of heights!
R
RCastillo
Guest
He's broke, so start passing the hat around. High rank first!
R
RCastillo
Guest
Guess I'll send in my membership for the IKKO, now that Dennis "Gotti" Conatser has taken over!
