Protocol mishap or fashion faux pas?

[Cyriacus]

Mastercole, the thread where you felt I was being argumentative, I simply asked you questions for clarity which you repeatedly refused to answer other than to try to brush me aside and accuse me of arguing. I have never attacked Taekwondo and I certainly do not seek drama. I have been here far longer than you, sir, and have seen people like you come and go. Perhaps you expected me to bow down to you and glorify every question you posed and never ask for clarification; maybe that's how you're used to being treated and expect that to happen here. Perhaps you're just the kind of person who will only accept the answers you want to hear. I don't know.

I encourage you as another human being on this planet to view all questions as carrying the potential for shared understanding (I'm certain I have asserted this more than once) regardless of your perception. You can only hope to forward your art by doing so. If that makes you feel uncomfortable ... perhaps you should take that into consideration when posting here.

Peace.

From what Ive seen of MasterCole, He can be very varied. Sometimes Hes just interrogating a subject to get to its core, other times He seems to be equally vigorously defending opinions, sometimes for reasons beyond Me. Its mostly the first one, and I dont mind that. Then I see the second side, and wonder exactly how the two extremes are possible in one person.

For example, to the Bold;
An example of the second one, is that thats what He is doing most of the time. With Him being the one asking the Questions.

Which is why these dramatic debates, which are often the same debate with a few words substituted, and of varied length, is a bit confusing on My end. Mostly as to why Theyre happening.

 

[shesulsa]

From what Ive seen of MasterCole, He can be very varied. Sometimes Hes just interrogating a subject to get to its core, other times He seems to be equally vigorously defending opinions, sometimes for reasons beyond Me. Its mostly the first one, and I dont mind that. Then I see the second side, and wonder exactly how the two extremes are possible in one person.

For example, to the Bold;
An example of the second one, is that thats what He is doing most of the time. With Him being the one asking the Questions.

Which is why these dramatic debates, which are often the same debate with a few words substituted, and of varied length, is a bit confusing on My end. Mostly as to why Theyre happening.

Well-stated, well-taken and easily remedied. :asian:

 

[miguksaram]

It is rare that I will go out with my uniform still on, but when it does happen I do take off my belt and leave it in the car. I have learned to try and keep a spare shirt in my car to wear on the occasion that someone wants to go out for food or drinks directly after class.

For kids to go out wearing their uniform and belts, I see no big deal to it. They're kids. I rarely see adults do it, but if they were to wear the uniforms outside of the school, again no big deal, but I do find it tacky if they keep their belts on. That is just my own opinion.

 

[miguksaram]

Ha ha ha! Remember this is an international forum, to read that you went out in pants in the UK means your underwear! Personally I at least get dressed before running out on errands ;-)

Well yeah...but I'm sure more people would much rather see Shesulsa running in pants (using the UK meaning) than you.

 

[Steve]

Just my two cents, I would never, ever go anywhere in a gi. I'll wear a jits t-shirt, but I typically wear shirts that are understated, and for the most part, if you don't train in BJJ, you might not even know it's related. Prana BJJ, RAW and Original Grappler are my favorites.

Now, I will say that in my experience, people who train in BJJ aren't modest, and I personally would have no problem changing in the lobby. And if it was a choice between changing in the lobby or going to the grocery store in my gi, I'd drop trow without a second thought. There's nothing I wear under my pants (trousers) that's worse than a typical swim suit, really. And the same is true for most women... although there was this one lady who wore a thong under her gi. That was awkward all the way around and she didn't last long.

I have zero issue with kids wearing doboks or whatever. They're kids, and it's not a big deal to me.

 

[Tez3]

It may be nothing that children run around in their uniforms or any sports kit but surely it's good for them to learn to look after their kit and not use it as they would what we called 'playing out clothes' when I was a child. When I was at school we had to come home and change out of our uniforms, not out of respect for the school but because the uniforms cost money and had to be looked after. In martial arts children should be encouraged to do exactly the same, Gis, Doboks, whatever cost money, hard earned by parents in many cases. Take them off after class or cover them up, fold them up properly and put them away. It's being discplined something martial arts schools claim to teach. It has the added bonus of showing a modicum of respect for what we do, we bow going in and out of class as a token of respect so why not encourage students to treat their uniforms with respect. It helps get the mindset right for training. I have know people who train, get sweaty then take their gi off and throw it in their sports bags not to be taken out until the next session, dear me, not something you want to be partnered with or even be near!

 

[Steve]

It may be nothing that children run around in their uniforms or any sports kit but surely it's good for them to learn to look after their kit and not use it as they would what we called 'playing out clothes' when I was a child. When I was at school we had to come home and change out of our uniforms, not out of respect for the school but because the uniforms cost money and had to be looked after. In martial arts children should be encouraged to do exactly the same, Gis, Doboks, whatever cost money, hard earned by parents in many cases. Take them off after class or cover them up, fold them up properly and put them away. It's being discplined something martial arts schools claim to teach. It has the added bonus of showing a modicum of respect for what we do, we bow going in and out of class as a token of respect so why not encourage students to treat their uniforms with respect. It helps get the mindset right for training. I have know people who train, get sweaty then take their gi off and throw it in their sports bags not to be taken out until the next session, dear me, not something you want to be partnered with or even be near!

I think there's a big difference between playing all day in your dobok or soccer uniform, and wearing it to the grocery store or to Dairy Queen with mom after a game or TKD class. I agree that it's good to learn to take care of one's things, but I see kids in uniforms all weekend long and it's just no big deal for me.

 

[leadleg]

I always wear light weight warm ups that I can pull over my whites, keeps them clean and unnoticed. What my students wear out of the dojang does not matter as long as they do not wear their belt. I do teach them the proper way to fold their dobuks, and will not tolerate stained or dirty uniforms. I will happily sell them a new one though.

 

[Tez3]

I think there's a big difference between playing all day in your dobok or soccer uniform, and wearing it to the grocery store or to Dairy Queen with mom after a game or TKD class. I agree that it's good to learn to take care of one's things, but I see kids in uniforms all weekend long and it's just no big deal for me.

In our area there's a TKD class and us, the TKD kids are out playing in the street with uniforms on as well as going shopping etc. I think it's fairly unusual to see martial arts uniforms out on the street in the UK, unusual enough at least I think that it does cause people to take a second look, now whether that's good or bad I don't know!

 

[andyjeffries]

Well yeah...but I'm sure more people would much rather see Shesulsa running in pants (using the UK meaning) than you.

Oy!

 

[GlassJaw]

I don't think my belt nor my uniform nor my wedding ring have special properties or magical powers.

Neither does one's national flag. Saluting the flag or removing one's dee before exiting the dojang are just rituals we choose to follow to demonstrate our respect.

You have given several reasons why it would be less practical for your school to have rules similar to what others have described regarding where, when, and how uniforms may be worn. And, as has been made very apparent in this thread, such rules are far from universal. Different schools choose to express respect for their art in different ways.

 

[GlassJaw]

In our school, we only wear the belts in the dojang (unless, of course, we're doing a demo or somesuch). That means we also remove them when going out into the corridor during practice or at a tournament.

We don't wear the dobak outside of the building (well, leaving it on while running out to the parking lot to grab something from one's car is probably acceptable--at least, I've never had to do pushups for it; I'm sure I would have gotten slammed if I left the belt on, though). No wearing it as pajamas or as a Halloween costume, or in any other way without our master's approval. (Indeed, it's also considered proper to seek permission before entering a tournament, as the uniform displays our school's patches.)

Despite the rule against it, wearing the uniform trousers outside of class seems to be tolerated some (students often prefer them to sweats or shorts when training at home). However, the trousers still have to be clean and whole when they wear them in class.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Greetings, TKDin.

I was seated at a local restaurant which is situated very near a popular (and expensive) TKD school. We were wrapping up dessert when in walked two women (I'd say in their 40s) wearing their full dobaks and belts, carrying Coach purses and mat shoes. Ironically, the words "Black Belt Club" was emblazoned upon the lower rear panel of their dobaks (appearing as though on their butts).

Once seated, they arose again, walking all the way across the restaurant to view the dessert display case, and then back across to be seated where they ate their entire meals and eventually departed still wearing their uniforms.

I really thought virtually every martial art carried the protocol that you do not go out and about in your uniform, let alone *eat* in it!

Please know I'm not trying to start anything nasty, but I noticed that most of the people I see out and about in full uniform are usually from Tae Kwon Do schools! Since I train in a Korean art as well, I thought protocol such as this is native to the country of origin ... am I wrong here?

Do you and/or your students go out and about in your uniforms and belts? Eat in them???

Thanks!

I don't know of any special protocol regarding the dobok outside of whatever is set by individual school owners. I have, on occasion, gone into to a retail establishment in my dobok, but I generally try not to; it has no pockets and is really not well suited to activities outside of the one for which it was designed.

As for why it seems to be taekwondo schools, I suspect that it has to do more with law of averages than anything else; there are easily five taekwondo schools for every single school teaching any other art in the DC metropolitan area. I suspect that suburbia in other parts of the country are similar.

Interestingly, the two schools who's students I see in doboks and gis outside of class are Kicks Karate and Teague's Academy. Both say 'karate' on their signs. The first is Tangsudo and the the second is a Jinenkan school with an Ishin Ryu karate based kids program. The reason is that they are located in strip malls and both have large numbers of children and teens taking class. Cannot speak for Kicks, but I have trained at Teague's and I have only good things to say about the experience.

I don't have an opinion about it one way or the other, though I do encourage my own students not to wear their uniforms outside of class, primarily for the purpose of keeping it in good condition.