Problems of new students

[Kung Fu Wang]

The general public can't tell the difference between ANY martial arts.

When someone asked me, "Are you still doing that chop chop stuff?" I don't know whether I should answer that person's question, or just ignored it.

 

[blackxpress]

It all depends on the school you go to. Some instructors feel their job is simply to teach the martial arts, and others feel they need to throw conditioning in, too.

I'm sure there are instructors in all arts who fall on both sides of the fence.

Absolutely. I've had to change dojos and styles a few times because of moving around for work. I train in Kyokushin now and it's intense. We haven't had to do 100 knuckle pushups on a medicine ball yet but there's always tomorrow. Standing against the wall while your partner hits you 50 times in the stomach bare knuckles is always fun. It feels really good when he stops. No doubt Muay Thai and MMA gyms are an intense workout and I have the highest degree of respect for them. But I have trained under some karate instructors that were downright sadistic when it came to physical conditioning. The worst was when I trained in Ryu Kyu Kenpo under an old shihan that would've probably made an excellent Marine Corps DI. He set his dojo up in an old garage. Hardwood floor, tin roof, no windows, no AC and it was in Georgia. In the summer time the floor was literally flooded with sweat. His goal was to push until we felt like passing out and then yell at us for being out of shape. Sadistic bastard but he was 63 years old and trained along side of us. He could do it and he didn't want to hear any excuses from us youngsters. I'm new to Kyokushin. My training so far has not reached that level of difficulty but, again, there's always tomorrow.

 

[donald1]

try a proper muay thai school and everyone does proper push ups with their feet balanced on a medicine ball and it's not just 10 that you do - you do them in sets of 10 reps and during the course of an hour you'll prolly do 10 sets

found tkd to be full of kids and hated it mainly cos of all the kids --- personally i don't want to be training with 6 year olds - i want to train with people my own age which is what i've got in my muay thai classes

I've done palm(regular), fingertip, knuckle, hands turned inward and more types of pushups but never thought of that though

I couldn't agree more, in my opinion i would say 6 is too young, a lot of children(not all) i have seen some well behaved children but the fact is still a good majority of kids are well... "kids will be kids" but it's not just kids though when I'm practicing forms or sparring techniques or anything of the sort i want to train serious, no goofing around no half partial effort (that can be done before and after class is over)

 

[donnaTKD]

all the people in my MT gym are there cos they want to be they chose to take this MA style cos of the amount of effort required to reach the standard expected and it doesn't cost much either which is a bonus

the MT gym run kiddies TMA classes in everything but MT and MMA --- think that they've got it spot on, MT or MMA is seen to be an adult "sport" and so it gets treated that way --- i've no complaints about it.

the other thing that i've noticed is how overweight and unfit the kids that go to TMA really are --- when i was growing up i was always running around and riding my bike and stuff and going all different places and now parents are like "i'm not letting you play outside cos someone might hurt you" --- to my mind it's no wonder kids play puter games all day. i can't say for sure but i'm pretty sure that about 70% of them couldn't run veru far before reaching for an inhaler

also agree with your point about kids messing about --- there's no room for it in a serious gym where people go cos they're serious about the training that they are doing.

 

[wingchun100]

When someone asked me, "Are you still doing that chop chop stuff?" I don't know whether I should answer that person's question, or just ignored it.

I know. Sometimes I feel like educating people, but sometimes I feel like people ENJOY being ignorant and it wouldn't be worth the effort.

 

[donnaTKD]

sometimes people ask what MA i train in (i train in out of the way public areas sometimes) and i tell them i kickbox and i can see them physically step backwards --- but on the other hand tell someone you do tkd and all of a sudden they're interested just find it funny is all thinking that MT/MMA has done wonders for the image of thai boxing and mma

 

[skribs]

sometimes people ask what MA i train in (i train in out of the way public areas sometimes) and i tell them i kickbox and i can see them physically step backwards --- but on the other hand tell someone you do tkd and all of a sudden they're interested just find it funny is all

Probably because most people associate kickboxing with combat sport and TKD with martial art. Combat sport says "I want to get into a ring and beat the other guy up" and martial art says "I want to learn to better myself and protect myself". I realize that's a gross oversimplification, but that's probably what goes on subconsciously in people's minds.

MT/MMA has done wonders for the image of thai boxing and mma

Uh...they've done wonders for the image of themselves?

 

[donald1]

the other thing that i've noticed is how overweight and unfit the kids that go to TMA really are --- when i was growing up i was always running around and riding my bike and stuff and going all different places and now parents are like "i'm not letting you play outside cos someone might hurt you" --- to my mind it's no wonder kids play puter games all day. i can't say for sure but i'm pretty sure that about 70% of them couldn't run veru far before reaching for an inhaler .

That reminds me of some good times running around... Playing tackle football on concrete or or other things like that
But maybe if kids were more actively involved they might grow up better... Or at least somewhat in better shape

 

[WaterGal]

Probably because most people associate kickboxing with combat sport and TKD with martial art.

Do people associate kickboxing with combat sport? Where I'm at, kickboxing classes are pretty much exclusively marketed as a way to lose weight. The ad usually has a fit woman in yoga pants kicking a bag or something like that.

 

[WaterGal]

It seems like there's this perception in the last few pages here that either you're doing 100 pushups and getting punched in the gut every class or you're fat and lazy and not doing exercise. I think that's pretty silly.

Most people aren't looking for Crossfit level of exercise in a class in their life. They're looking more for a spin class or Zumba level of exercise. And I don't think it's reasonable to say that a person taking a spin class isn't interested in exercising or isn't working hard.

Of course, there are schools that don't do much exercise at all, people that get black belts that couldn't run half a mile or do 10 pushups, and I don't think that's good. But on the other end of it, there's a level of fitness that you really only need to achieve if you're trying to be a professional fighter or a Marine - which is great if you're trying to do that, but isn't necessary for self-defense or general health. It doesn't make a school fake or less than or the students lazy because they fall somewhere in the middle.

 

[skribs]

Of course, there are schools that don't do much exercise at all, people that get black belts that couldn't run half a mile or do 10 pushups, and I don't think that's good. But on the other end of it, there's a level of fitness that you really only need to achieve if you're trying to be a professional fighter or a Marine - which is great if you're trying to do that, but isn't necessary for self-defense or general health. It doesn't make a school fake or less than or the students lazy because they fall somewhere in the middle.

Is the instructor's job to get them in shape, or teach them martial arts? I understand that the two go hand-in-hand, but that doesn't mean the martial arts instructor has to be responsible for all of it.

Do people associate kickboxing with combat sport? Where I'm at, kickboxing classes are pretty much exclusively marketed as a way to lose weight. The ad usually has a fit woman in yoga pants kicking a bag or something like that.

I'm just saying, if your layman hears any of the following words, he's likely to think of two people getting into a ring and beating each other up: wrestling (they'll think WWF), MMA, UFC, boxing, kickboxing...those words sound like you're going to get into a ring and fight.

Now if you say anything that sounds Asian, like Muay Thai, Jujitsu, Judo, Karate, Taekwondo, Aikido/Hapkido, Kung Fu, or Wushu then they'll think you're talking about self defense.

Silat, savate, sambo, systema, or others that non-martial-artist Americans haven't heard much of they'll just blink and go "what's that?"

My point is, your layman will subconsciously turn what you say into categories they understand. They don't know the difference between all these arts. They just know what it sounds like.

 

[WaterGal]

Is the instructor's job to get them in shape, or teach them martial arts? I understand that the two go hand-in-hand, but that doesn't mean the martial arts instructor has to be responsible for all of it.

As you say, they go hand in hand. I think learning martial arts can and should be somewhat of a workout in itself, and that it's also good for an instructor to develop some level of fitness in students so they can do the material and also improve themselves. That doesn't have to involve knuckle pushups on a medicine ball or whatever, just doing striking, sparring, even forms fast and hard.

I'm just saying, if your layman hears any of the following words, he's likely to think of two people getting into a ring and beating each other up: wrestling (they'll think WWF), MMA, UFC, boxing, kickboxing...those words sound like you're going to get into a ring and fight.

Eh, I still don't think of actual fighting when I think of kickboxing. I think of that lady in the yoga pants at the gym.

 

[wingchun100]

We used to have a very prolonged workout at the wing chun school I go to, but Sifu whittled it down to just a mild warm-up. We don't have very high kicks so he took out the stretching routine so we can maximize our time and focus on wing chun. For certain styles you HAVE to keep the stretch routine in there. I know being fit is important, but it sucks having to sacrifice some of class time for it because there is SO much to learn!

 

[Jaeimseu]

We used to have a very prolonged workout at the wing chun school I go to, but Sifu whittled it down to just a mild warm-up. We don't have very high kicks so he took out the stretching routine so we can maximize our time and focus on wing chun. For certain styles you HAVE to keep the stretch routine in there. I know being fit is important, but it sucks having to sacrifice some of class time for it because there is SO much to learn!

That's why we try to do both at the same time.

Sent from my SHV-E210K using Tapatalk

 

[wingchun100]

Earlier someone was talking about not wanting to practice with kids. (I think it was donnaTKD.) I was fortunate in that every martial arts school I attended separated kids from adults, but sometimes I would stop in early and watch the kids' classes. There were a couple times where I was floored by what went on. I went to a judo school, and I watched them pair the kids off to practice. Well, one kid goes up and just SLAPS the other one in the face! Now if that were my school, I would have had a zero tolerance policy for that; I would have taken the parents aside and said, "Here's your refund for this month. Buh bye." (I probably would have refunded them for the gi and belt too!)

 

[skribs]

As you say, they go hand in hand. I think learning martial arts can and should be somewhat of a workout in itself, and that it's also good for an instructor to develop some level of fitness in students so they can do the material and also improve themselves. That doesn't have to involve knuckle pushups on a medicine ball or whatever, just doing striking, sparring, even forms fast and hard.

This is true. I've just read about some places where it seems the majority of class time is spent on fitness and the rest on martial arts.

Earlier someone was talking about not wanting to practice with kids. (I think it was donnaTKD.) I was fortunate in that every martial arts school I attended separated kids from adults, but sometimes I would stop in early and watch the kids' classes. There were a couple times where I was floored by what went on. I went to a judo school, and I watched them pair the kids off to practice. Well, one kid goes up and just SLAPS the other one in the face! Now if that were my school, I would have had a zero tolerance policy for that; I would have taken the parents aside and said, "Here's your refund for this month. Buh bye." (I probably would have refunded them for the gi and belt too!)
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I've taken one family class in my school. I haven't done another because I got paired with a kid that I'm pretty sure was dragged there by his parents and had no intention of actually practicing.

I've also had kids show up in my class, and I've done the dedicated sparring class (which I was the first adult to show up after it was open to more than just kids) and those kids are motivated, and great fun to practice with. Granted, those kids are mainly blue/red belts (1-6 tests away from black), as opposed to the purple belt (9 tests away), so that might be part of the difference.

 

[donnaTKD]

i went to cheshire martial arts last night for a double session and given that most of them are fighting either this weekend or next weekend it was a total letdown tbh might go back to the other place --- no one was really motivated which i found strange considering they're gunna fighting --- the cardio stuff that i'm used to was none existent and the few kids that were there really didn't want to be there - just no motivation in the room.

the most motivated it got was when we all paired up in the ring and that wasn't exactly hard was expecting a lot more tbh --- the instructor knows his stuff but i think he expects his students to do more at home which judging by the amount of dropouts just isnt happening.

no one is dragged there though but the level and standard of everything just wasn't "there" --- hate it when places get like that

 

[K-man]

Well it happened again on Monday. Guy rings up and we chat for a bit. He says he will be at training Tuesday night. Great!

I took the advice to ring just before the class. Phone went to message bank, so just left a short message reminding him where our school is located and says that I was looking forward to meeting him ... and ... no show! Aarh! :flammad:

 

[donald1]

i went to cheshire martial arts last night for a double session and given that most of them are fighting either this weekend or next weekend it was a total letdown tbh might go back to the other place --- no one was really motivated which i found strange considering they're gunna fighting --- the cardio stuff that i'm used to was none existent and the few kids that were there really didn't want to be there - just no motivation in the room.

the most motivated it got was when we all paired up in the ring and that wasn't exactly hard was expecting a lot more tbh --- the instructor knows his stuff but i think he expects his students to do more at home which judging by the amount of dropouts just isnt happening.

no one is dragged there though but the level and standard of everything just wasn't "there" --- hate it when places get like that

A good leadership would put them in gear, yet sometimes even with a good teacher your still not guaranteed good results. But you can't motivate someone who isn't trying or doesn't want. To

Well it happened again on Monday. Guy rings up and we chat for a bit. He says he will be at training Tuesday night. Great!

I took the advice to ring just before the class. Phone went to message bank, so just left a short message reminding him where our school is located and says that I was looking forward to meeting him ... and ... no show! Aarh! :flammad:

That must be annoying, almost sounds like the same problem, lack of motivation. That or something came up and he didn't bother to give a notice. Never had anyone do that but. As the day goes by it could happen

 

[donnaTKD]

i found an old friend on FB and he says that he got to the point of Muay Thai instructor cos he stopped scrapping -- he lost his last bout in style form what i heard so am going to get him to coach me

should be fun cos we're both very competitive and i know that he's got the motivation to go with it so the training should be full on

the teachers at CMA just expect everyone to know what they're doing straight out - there's none or very little instruction which quite a few people found to be a bit wrong - can understand the pricetag being cheap though.