Preventing overheating during training

[Badger1777]

For someone who claims not to be insulted by what they read, you sure seem pissed off a comment that I think most would recognize as humor. I never said your post was stupid. You did. I said it was wrong, and explained why. If you choose to be insulted by that, then I guess there's not much anybody can do about it.
Have a nice day.

Ok, so it was meant as humour. You must admit though, that unless you personally know someone, humour is not very funny when there is a clear association between what the person you are mocking said, and people who believe that Elvis is still alive.

I'm not going to argue. I appreciate the advice and info you offer, even if your idea of humour is clearly to mock others.

 

[Dirty Dog]

So smoking has no bearing on how much I sweat? Or at least from a toxin perspective?

I guess the overall effect it it has on my cardio-vascular functions could be a factor though?

Smoking does not directly cause sweating, no. The damage it does to your heart and lungs, however, will certainly mean you're going to work harder than a non-smoker. That assumes other factors are equal. A morbidly obese non-smoker is probably going to work harder than a reasonably fit smoker.

 

[Badger1777]

Smoking does not directly cause sweating, no. The damage it does to your heart and lungs, however, will certainly mean you're going to work harder than a non-smoker. That assumes other factors are equal. A morbidly obese non-smoker is probably going to work harder than a reasonably fit smoker.

I can understand that. Thanks for the explanation.

But here's a thing. As an ex-smoker (some would say the worst kind of smoker), I've had the odd relapse here and there, where I've maybe got stressed and then smoked half a dozen or so cigarettes over the course of a one day, and then stopped again immediately. Its unlikely (I think) that one day of smoking a bit is going to have an instant and significant impact on one's fitness level, yet when I've had such lapses, I've always sweated profusely the next day, and the sweat is usually embarrassingly smelly sweat, rather than the regular unpleasant but generally fairly odourless sweat from exertion. This is just an observation I've noticed consistently.

Still, the easiest solution is to never smoke. Smoking is stupid. When I was in hospital a few months ago (for reasons nothing to do with smoking), most of the people on the same ward were in there for ailments directly attributed to smoking. Some of them were waiting to see whether entire limps could be saved after they'd lost blood circulation to them. One poor chap, only a few years older than me, had already had one leg took off, and was back in again after falling and splitting the stitches open.

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

Smoking does not directly cause sweating, no. The damage it does to your heart and lungs, however, will certainly mean you're going to work harder than a non-smoker. That assumes other factors are equal. A morbidly obese non-smoker is probably going to work harder than a reasonably fit smoker.

Thought so, I'll carry on smoking then

 

[Dirty Dog]

I can understand that. Thanks for the explanation.

But here's a thing. As an ex-smoker (some would say the worst kind of smoker), I've had the odd relapse here and there, where I've maybe got stressed and then smoked half a dozen or so cigarettes over the course of a one day, and then stopped again immediately. Its unlikely (I think) that one day of smoking a bit is going to have an instant and significant impact on one's fitness level, yet when I've had such lapses, I've always sweated profusely the next day, and the sweat is usually embarrassingly smelly sweat, rather than the regular unpleasant but generally fairly odourless sweat from exertion. This is just an observation I've noticed consistently.

Still, the easiest solution is to never smoke. Smoking is stupid. When I was in hospital a few months ago (for reasons nothing to do with smoking), most of the people on the same ward were in there for ailments directly attributed to smoking. Some of them were waiting to see whether entire limps could be saved after they'd lost blood circulation to them. One poor chap, only a few years older than me, had already had one leg took off, and was back in again after falling and splitting the stitches open.

While it may well take years to develop permanent issues (like cancer or COPD) from smoking, there are other changes that are immediate. The cilia (little hair things that move gunk up and out of your lungs) are paralyzed pretty much immediately. That means the gunk stays in your lungs. That means you'll have to work just that little bit harder. It also means you're providing a breeding ground for bacteria, which is one reason why smokers get pneumonia so often. Inflammation also occurs quickly, meaning the tubes in the lungs are smaller, which means it's more difficult to move air (and the gunk you're trying to cough out, since your cilia are on vacation) through them. As the diameter of a tube shrinks, the pressure required to move the same volume goes up exponentially.

Even Fat Elvis didn't smoke...

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

Even Fat Elvis didn't smoke...

He may as well have though. What's the worst that could happen?

Can't imagine it would have killed him even sooner.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Thought so, I'll carry on smoking then

We need a facepalm emoticon...

 

[K-man]

Can I point out that you made a claim that is just plain wrong.

Smoking fills you with poison. Sweating has multiple functions. The obvious one is to cool you, but it is also a mechanism for expelling toxins, so smokers generally sweat more even when not exerting themselves, as the body does its best to detox you.

DD pointed out in his usual way that you were wrong, which you are. If you had been arround MT for a while you might realise that DD's responses are generally rather blunt. After all he is a Grumpy Old Man. But what he says is always from experience and a sound knowledge base. There are several of us here with a medical type background and we cringe when we here crap about detoxing and the like. We have a liver, lungs and kidneys to remove toxins. All the fancy potions and saunas in the world won't change that.


So we come to your response ...

So compounds with molecules small enough to fit in between the genes in your DNA, those causing mutations that can lead to cancer, are too large to fit through the pores in your skin?

Hmm! And you have some scientific evidence to back this up?

When someone eats too much garlic and they develop a cold sweat shortly after, and their sweat actually smells of garlic, that is pure coincidence?

Certainly some compounds can pass through the skin in perspiration but that has nothing to do with detoxification.

The myth you refer to, that you can actively sweat poisons out, is of course a myth in the sense that you can't simply go out on a Friday night, fill yourself with whatever you want, and then live guilt free by going to a sauna the next morning, but the simple fact is you do sweat more if you are full of certain things that you shouldn't be full of, and some of those toxins will be carried out in your sweat.

No. It is a myth, full stop. Traces of some compounds may be eliminated in sweat. Not enough to be considered detox.

Have you ever owned a dog? Have you ever noticed how they seem to be able to read a lot of information just from someone's scent? Well, if sweat is always as pure as you suggest, then I guess those dogs are just reacting randomly and all the research and training that's gone into exploiting a dog's super sense of smell, for everything from hunting to crime detection to medical situations, its all just a massive waste of time.

​DD never said sweat was pure. Trace amounts of other compounds can pass through the skin and there are scientific papers postulating that it may by possible to eliminate certain compounds through induced perspiration. I'll leave one here if you are interested. Biomonitoring and Elimination of Perfluorinated Compounds and Polychlorinated Biphenyls through Perspiration: Blood, Urine, and Sweat Study

And for what it's worth, I do track with my dog. Most of the scent the dog is following is from discarded skin cells, not perspiration. Then you have the disturbed earth, grass etc.

And as for the tone of your response, if you have some knowledge that demonstrates that I'm wrong, well say so constructively. Dismissing my post as being stupid and comparable to believe Elvis is still alive, well that would just be plain insulting if I was the kind that gets insulting by such disappointingly petty remarks.

I would have said it in other words but what DD said it is pretty much on the money.


So let's see if I can rephrase it.


Your theory on detoxification is based on popular mythology and is not scientifically accurate. There are other who believe implausible stories such as those who claim Elvis is still in the building. That has about as much credibility.

Now I will give my theory on detox. Take a series of deep breaths. As you breathe out image that all the pent up emotion is leaving the body, then we can get back to discussing overheating at training in a constructive manner.
:asian:


PS. There have been many civil responses since the ones I responded too, so don't take offence at this one. Carry on gentlemen.

 

[donald1]

Any ideas anyone? I'm one of those people that's more adapted to the cold than the heat. During training I get so hot I actually overheat sometimes and then go dizzy and faint. I'm sure that will sort itself out as my fitness comes back, but in the meantime, I'd love to be able to find a way to stay cool.

So here's what happens. I get hot, I sweat profusely, I start to dehydrate, I get hotter, I literally drip sweat and then I go dizzy and faint. I stop for a drink, drink loads (I've started added rehydration salts to my drinks), pace up and down for a minute to try to cool down, then get on with it.

Is there some kind of skin gel/oil/magic potion that helps with cooling? I've shaved my head, including my beard, to allow more heat to escape from there. I don't wear anything under my suit except for my super-sporty-undies. Our club has a rule that we don't kill ourselves (too much paperwork apparently ) so we're allowed to stop whenever we need to, but I don't want to keep stopping. I'm fit enough now to keep going, if only I could stay cool and hydrated.

Do you drink water throughout your day? For me i have a container could be a car size that's what i fill with water and try to drink at least 1 container full of water a throughout the whole day and the next day repeat((not all at once, throughout the whole day from morning to night time. And minimize the things that might make it worse)

Luckily for me I can't smoke, my breathing gets problems even without smoking...

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

We need a facepalm emoticon...

Just for you, courtesy of Tez:

 

[Marnetmar]

Wear a bandana that's been soaked in water, it really helps to cool you down.

 

[Badger1777]

I bought a cheap t-shirt made of fabric that is meant to wick sweat away, inspired by the success of my super-sporty-undies purchase. I still got hot but not excessively so. I think that's the way to go.

 

[jezr74]

Any ideas anyone? I'm one of those people that's more adapted to the cold than the heat. During training I get so hot I actually overheat sometimes and then go dizzy and faint. I'm sure that will sort itself out as my fitness comes back, but in the meantime, I'd love to be able to find a way to stay cool.

So here's what happens. I get hot, I sweat profusely, I start to dehydrate, I get hotter, I literally drip sweat and then I go dizzy and faint. I stop for a drink, drink loads (I've started added rehydration salts to my drinks), pace up and down for a minute to try to cool down, then get on with it.

Is there some kind of skin gel/oil/magic potion that helps with cooling? I've shaved my head, including my beard, to allow more heat to escape from there. I don't wear anything under my suit except for my super-sporty-undies. Our club has a rule that we don't kill ourselves (too much paperwork apparently ) so we're allowed to stop whenever we need to, but I don't want to keep stopping. I'm fit enough now to keep going, if only I could stay cool and hydrated.

I'll have to put my money where my mouth is. It's started to get warm where I live as we approach summer. My Monday night training session was very warm to what I'd been experiencing the last 6 months, and half way through warm ups was wondering how thin a dobok I could go before it would fall apart in practice.

So if you pick up further tips, I'd love to hear them.

 

[K-man]

I've been doing a little research and it seems that in extreme situations if your body temperature rises above 40deg C you will fatigue at that point. Fatigue occurs in the body temperature range of 38-40 deg regardless of intensity of exercise. If you start with a cool body it will take longer to fatigue but if the temperature goes up performance goes down.

Influence of body temperature on the development of fatigue during prolonged exercise in the heat | Journal of Applied Physiology
:asian:

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'll have to put my money where my mouth is. It's started to get warm where I live as we approach summer. My Monday night training session was very warm to what I'd been experiencing the last 6 months, and half way through warm ups was wondering how thin a dobok I could go before it would fall apart in practice.

So if you pick up further tips, I'd love to hear them.

A thinner uniform will saturate sooner, reducing it's ability to wick away perspiration. Which means it'll actually be subjectively hotter than a thick uniform, in much the same way that a 90F day with 90% humidity feels hotter than a 90F day with 10% humidity.

 

[Badger1777]

Well, I tried a cold shower before going, washed in peppermint shower gel which has a significant cooling effect on the skin (to the point where you feel freezing), and then set off with my wicking underlayers under my suit. I was already feeling hot before I even got half way to the club. Once there, I burned out within a few minutes of the session starting, and it wasn't even especially hard.

The conclusion I came to, and this is just a theory, but I suspect that because I'd cooled my skin, less blood would have been coming close to the surface. My cold shower and peppermint shower gel will not have cooled me to any depth. If it had my body's built in temperature regulation mechanisms would have just turned up the heat to compensate. So quite likely all I did was put effectively an extra layer of thermal insulation on (in the form of cold skin closing blood vessels at the surface to retain the heat).

I've been doing some research too. I read some articles by athletes that compete in endurance races of various kinds in places like the Canary Islands. Off the coast in the Canaries, I've seen the thermometer register 42'C and that was heading into winter. These endurance folks said that in training for an event, they actually train deliberately in conditions that are uncomfortably warm. At first they dehydrate early, but as the event gets closer, and their training/preparation advances, their bodies adapt and retain more fluid, develop a greater blood volume which helps with cooling (more blood to heat means more time for heat to escape - I tried to find some science to back this up but what I found either seemed a bit heresay or it was too technical for me to understand).

It probably makes sense. If you think about people going on holiday to somewhere much hotter than they're used to, at first they feel sluggish, but towards the end of their break they're fine. Then they come home to temperatures that are 'normal' to them, and they feel like its freezing. For me personally, I grew up in bitterly cold houses, and even now, in a much more modern house, I very rarely put the heating on, and if the heating does go on, its usually because the wife has insisted. I like to be outdoors a lot too, in all weather. So I've become good, over a lot of years, at staying warm. So put me in a warm training hall with a full suit on along with 30 or 40 other hot bodies, and its easy to see how I overheat. I don't want to crank the heat up at home, because that's bad for my finances and bad for the environment, so I guess I'll just have to keep looking for little ways that might cumulatively add up to solve the problem.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Any ideas anyone?

Can you consider that as a personal challenge?

Old saying said, "If you can train under the summer sun, and in the winter snow when you were young, the heat and cold will never be able to bother you for the rest of your life, your body will become immortal".

Of course this has to do with your age and your body condition. You have to be young and with good health to take these kind of challenge. I have passed the heat training test when I was young. All my life, heat never bother me that much. Since there is no snow in Taiwan, I didn't have chance to train under winter snow. The cold still bother me.

 

[drop bear]

Well, I tried a cold shower before going, washed in peppermint shower gel which has a significant cooling effect on the skin (to the point where you feel freezing), and then set off with my wicking underlayers under my suit. I was already feeling hot before I even got half way to the club. Once there, I burned out within a few minutes of the session starting, and it wasn't even especially hard.

The conclusion I came to, and this is just a theory, but I suspect that because I'd cooled my skin, less blood would have been coming close to the surface. My cold shower and peppermint shower gel will not have cooled me to any depth. If it had my body's built in temperature regulation mechanisms would have just turned up the heat to compensate. So quite likely all I did was put effectively an extra layer of thermal insulation on (in the form of cold skin closing blood vessels at the surface to retain the heat).

I've been doing some research too. I read some articles by athletes that compete in endurance races of various kinds in places like the Canary Islands. Off the coast in the Canaries, I've seen the thermometer register 42'C and that was heading into winter. These endurance folks said that in training for an event, they actually train deliberately in conditions that are uncomfortably warm. At first they dehydrate early, but as the event gets closer, and their training/preparation advances, their bodies adapt and retain more fluid, develop a greater blood volume which helps with cooling (more blood to heat means more time for heat to escape - I tried to find some science to back this up but what I found either seemed a bit heresay or it was too technical for me to understand).

It probably makes sense. If you think about people going on holiday to somewhere much hotter than they're used to, at first they feel sluggish, but towards the end of their break they're fine. Then they come home to temperatures that are 'normal' to them, and they feel like its freezing. For me personally, I grew up in bitterly cold houses, and even now, in a much more modern house, I very rarely put the heating on, and if the heating does go on, its usually because the wife has insisted. I like to be outdoors a lot too, in all weather. So I've become good, over a lot of years, at staying warm. So put me in a warm training hall with a full suit on along with 30 or 40 other hot bodies, and its easy to see how I overheat. I don't want to crank the heat up at home, because that's bad for my finances and bad for the environment, so I guess I'll just have to keep looking for little ways that might cumulatively add up to solve the problem.

Run to training in a sweat suit. Then training will be light and breezy by comparison.