Armpit Pressure Point

[chufeng]

abesthesia = anesthesia...sorry for the typo

 

[DAC..florida]

Dim Mak along with everything else has changed over the years and is not only the art of killing it is the art of pressure points for healing and self defence purposes, I have been fortunate enough to train with someone who has working knowledge of this art I have a dim mak bible written in english and as soon as I can find it I will give the website of the man who wrote it. This book has alot of useful information to share but as I said ealier be careful some pressure points can do permanent damage to people and even kill!
I am not a master of dim mak nor is the man who shared some techniques with me, the man who wrote the book I have says that he is, I never met him. If I could find the stupid thing I would have already posted it.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Yes, but there are way too many people that identify the actions of HK film actors doing wirework to the things they think they will be able to develop...

Irrelevant. Does not apply in my case.

I said I could ID them... Never said I was a whiz at hitting them. And there is a big difference between the "secret" or "forbidden" points that deal with acupuncture points and energy damage and all the other points that will result in stunning, injuring or killing effects as well.

and I asked you which mak it was ..

Look, I am extremely skeptical of anyone who claims he/she can pinpoint a tiny spot on a fully clothed human body that is in motion. That is BS. You can strip the guy naked and take a measuring tape to the body, then may be. When the guy is coming at you, and you can ID, target and hit a spot on this body which you are looking at for the first time, through layers of clothing? FAT CHANCE!

That is why I am skeptical of the claim of proficiency in DimMak. Besides, I am skeptical of the effect of DimMak.

Never said it was a secret. Just said "exercising maturity and responsibility." If Joe Blow down the road gets a book on bombs and kills himself while maiming his family, then it was the author of that book that acted irresponsibly by putting that information into the hands of people not fit to have it. I'm exercising my choice not to do the same. Not that I am implying you aren't fit, but there are more than we two reading this thread... Hence Chufeng's comment about not going into the issue online. In person, in private, sure. On the internet where any idiot 14 year old with a grudge against someone could access it? Nope. At least not via my comments.

No, if the idiot blew himself up b/c he read something about bomb making and tried his hand at it, then it is HIS fault alone. Unless he is a minor. About that case where the publisher was found liable by a jury (of morons ), that book in question was about how to carry out a hit. I read the book. Haven't kill anyone (yet) . Giving people instruction on how to make a living as a hitman, probably "shoke the conscience of the society and the court", so the speak. And hence warrant to be held legally responsible. Publishing info about a martial art? Hardly fits the criteria.

As far as martial arts go, there is no art that is THAT deadly as to warrant keeping it from the public. 99.99% of the times when such claim is made about a specific art, some sort of scam is invovled. (I have to laugh at some schools/instructors closing the doors on their BB classes to protect the BB secret! LMAO! What a load of crap! If anything, BB is simply elementary material! )

As to any 14 yr old idiot attempting to use Dim Mak? Sorry, I have to lMAO! FAT CHANCE of that happening. Yeah, it could only happen if the kid used a HAMMER to hit the mak!! Do you think Dim Mak is about "touching" the mak? (assuming of course that your know which mak to hit and when to hit) No! You have to strike it with blunt force.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by chufeng
JN,

I didn't claim to know dimMak...

What I said was that I can think of both physiologic and energy related reasons why hitting that point would be bad...

Does that make me a charlatan?

No. I was not referring to you as a charlatan. On the contrary, I consider you and Yiliquan as heavy weights.

I was referring to your position about keeping the art "secret and priviledged" as simply lending credence to charlatans who use that line of reasoning as fig leaf to cover the BS they hype.

99.99% of the time when such claim of privilege status is made, some sort of scam is involved and the charlatan wants to divert inquiry away.

I choose not to discuss certain things on this board...striking to vital points is one of them...

Fine. But you are giving the impression that you know a LOT about the subject AND that it is such a SECRET art and so DEADLY that it needs to be kept from the public.

Every time something like this is presented, 9 out of 10, the poster is BULLS@#$%tting.

Granted, a charlatan is in it for the money. But your are not. Hence I wasn't referring to you as a charlatan.

For those who are really interested in the subject...find a teacher who can show you...buying a book is only worthwhile IF you already know the rudiments of it...

That is the problem right there. This DIM MAK is such a secret, any charlatan can BS a bunch about it and make BS claim about it. How do you know that "teacher" is not BSting the whole crack pot? Is Dim Mak even for real? What is it based on? What indepent proof of theory is available? What evidence is available?

Keeping something secret is an invitation to fraud and farce.

As Yiliquan1 points out, there are a wide variety of people who read this board...I don't want someone out there saying "Hey I saw this on martial talk..."and POW...someone gets hurt.

I think people are over concerned about the effectiveness of DimMak.

If this thing is "as advertised" you would have:

1. Lots of Asian school kids dead or crippled b/c their school mates used Dim Mak to settle score with them. Any one can go to their local corner bookstore and get a book on Dim Mak.

2. The Chinese( both the Communists and the Nationalists) would have teams of assasins, special forces, made up of DIm Mak special agents and operators. They have all the archive and secret texts on Dim Mak and any other CMA. Even I was able to get my hands on a few of those written in Classical Chinese. YES, Classical Chinese. Not Mandarin CHinese. Those texts were written hundreds of years ago. Yeah, you would think all the greasy details of MA secrets are in there. But, bogus claims are not modern day invention. Tons of claims were made. Tons of assertion were made. Some has basis, some is pure garbage.

I am pretty sure that the Chinese are lMAO over Americans treating Dim Mak as such deadly art.

Since you've already read the dozens of books on DimMak, there is little I can offer you anyways...

...and for the record, I don't know DimMak.
So the "privileged" information is not mine to give...

I practice abesthesia and I do have some training in Acupuncture...and I base my concerns on that.

Condescending remark is ignored.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
No. I was not referring to you as a charlatan. On the contrary, I consider you and Yiliquan as heavy weights.

Oh! So now you're calling me fat, too??? :angry: :rofl:

I was referring to your position about keeping the art "secret and priviledged" as simply lending credence to charlatans who use that line of reasoning as fig leaf to cover the BS they hype.

You're right. It does seem to lend authenticity to the claim. At the same time, withholding information on improvised munitions helps to support the idea that private citizens lack the responsibility to possess that info in the first place. Neither supposition is necessarily correct, but the steps taken to insure the safety of the general public do lend weight to the flawed premises...

99.99% of the time when such claim of privilege status is made, some sort of scam is involved and the charlatan wants to divert inquiry away.

Well, that's the flag then... When someone says flatly that it is super deadly and super secret, the BS detector should flash! Neither Chufeng nor I are saying it is that, just that it is dangerous to hand out info irresponsibly without concern for what people will do with the info. Sure, they can get it somewhere else, but at least I'm not contributing to their own self-injury...

Fine. But you are giving the impression that you know a LOT about the subject AND that it is such a SECRET art and so DEADLY that it needs to be kept from the public.

I didn't get that from Chufeng's comments, but then I know him personally... I am sure that wasn't his intent.

Every time something like this is presented, 9 out of 10, the poster is BULLS@#$%tting.

See above comment in total agreement of your comment here...

Granted, a charlatan is in it for the money. But your are not. Hence I wasn't referring to you as a charlatan.

In all honesty, we in the NW Yiliquan training group pay not a slim dime for training... We pay our annual association fee, and that's it... I teach for free whenever I teach - I refuse to accept payment. I am working out a contract now to teach on Fort Lewis, and payment is part of the contract. I will use the money to better the training by investing in equipment and other things for the class.

That is the problem right there. This DIM MAK is such a secret, any charlatan can BS a bunch about it and make BS claim about it. How do you know that "teacher" is not BSting the whole crack pot? Is Dim Mak even for real? What is it based on? What indepent proof of theory is available? What evidence is available?

Well, this kind of segues into the whole Dillman and Mooney controversies... Vital point striking is more and less than what folks think it is. "Dim mak" is almost nothing more than a sales label at this point (since most folks lack enough foreign language exposure to accept that it only means the same as the words we use in English - vital point striking), and should probably be avoided if it is used (though there are some folks who teach legitimate things with that label).

Keeping something secret is an invitation to fraud and farce.

Or it is a good way to make someone value something ordinary more than they ordinarily would!

I think people are over concerned about the effectiveness of DimMak.

I would agree. They think that, like qigong, it will be the magic bullet for their training. Neat thing is that when you have a really good strike/kick, nearly any spot on the body can become (almost) a vital point strike! I have been hit in "non-vital" areas by folks with Thunder God strikes, and I can tell you that the last thing on my mind was "well, they suck because they didn't hit such-and-such a point." I was likely too busy trying to regain control over my bodily functions, and their skill at "dim mak" wasn't really on my mind...

If this thing is "as advertised" you would have:

1. Lots of Asian school kids dead or crippled b/c their school mates used Dim Mak to settle score with them. Any one can go to their local corner bookstore and get a book on Dim Mak.

2. The Chinese( both the Communists and the Nationalists) would have teams of assasins, special forces, made up of DIm Mak special agents and operators. They have all the archive and secret texts on Dim Mak and any other CMA. Even I was able to get my hands on a few of those written in Classical Chinese. YES, Classical Chinese. Not Mandarin CHinese. Those texts were written hundreds of years ago. Yeah, you would think all the greasy details of MA secrets are in there. But, bogus claims are not modern day invention. Tons of claims were made. Tons of assertion were made. Some has basis, some is pure garbage.

I am pretty sure that the Chinese are lMAO over Americans treating Dim Mak as such deadly art.

Well, not sure I agree on the details of these comments, but close enough in generalities. The government agent thing amount simply to a flawed premise. Governments are concerned with technology and toys. There are very old and time tested things that I know the US Government ignores completely. Whatever. Besides, how long does it take to train a Remo Williams?

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[chufeng]

Condescending remark is ignored.

Not intended as condescending...however, you seem to think that the plethora of books on this subject have USEFUL information in them...or you think they are totally useless...you've basically said both within this thread

I would suggest that anyone who publishes a book on this subject is only in it for the money and not so much interested in what the reader may learn...

I would also suggest that training to hit vital points is a REAL art but VERY few will ever achieve it...

Better to develop the Hammer of Thor punch that Yiliquan1 likes to refer to...

I agree with you that it is unlikely that someone will be able to go out and use my post to be effective in a street confrontation...but I've actually knocked someone out, unintentionally, by hitting a "point" while screwing around...back in 1983...my Sifu wasn't there, and I had no idea how to resuscitate the person...

That event has made me a little more cautious

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by chufeng
Not intended as condescending...however, you seem to think that the plethora of books on this subject have USEFUL information in them...or you think they are totally useless...you've basically said both within this thread

I would suggest that anyone who publishes a book on this subject is only in it for the money and not so much interested in what the reader may learn...

I would also suggest that training to hit vital points is a REAL art but VERY few will ever achieve it...

Better to develop the Hammer of Thor punch that Yiliquan1 likes to refer to...

I agree with you that it is unlikely that someone will be able to go out and use my post to be effective in a street confrontation...but I've actually knocked someone out, unintentionally, by hitting a "point" while screwing around...back in 1983...my Sifu wasn't there, and I had no idea how to resuscitate the person...

That event has made me a little more cautious

:asian:
chufeng

My mentioning of the fact that books on the topic are widely available in another part of the world is in reference to the fact that Dim Mak is no hidden secret in Asia. Charts of the mak are a dime a dozen.

But you don't ever hear of any case where Dim Mak has ever been used. When they settle scores, it is almost always with the good ol' BLADE (Samurai blade or the Chinese meat cleaver). If anything, Dim Mak is widely accepted as a lost art. The knowledge about the mak is widely known. But no one has been able to put it to practice. Every body takes it for granted that Dim Mak is for real. No one has actually seen anyone practice it. Hence my Big Foot analogy.

As regarding to publishing such books for profit, in most cases that would be true. The text I have come across, is written in Classical Chinese. Next to impossible to decipher, even for people who are profficient in Mandarin Chinese. It sure wasn't written for mass circulation.

The problem is, there are also many text written in such style, but are of dubious quality. I have read one that claims to teach you to walk over snow w/o leaving foot prints. And how to climb wall like the Spiderman. Yet, in another chapter, the same book describs in great details about training and conditioning that dovetails extremely well with what is known in modern bodybuilding knowledge.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
...Well, this kind of segues into the whole Dillman and Mooney controversies... Vital point striking is more and less than what folks think it is. "Dim mak" is almost nothing more than a sales label at this point (since most folks lack enough foreign language exposure to accept that it only means the same as the words we use in English - vital point striking), and should probably be avoided if it is used (though there are some folks who teach legitimate things with that label).

According to the text that I have read (assuming I understood it correctly), Dim Mak is NOT excactly the vital point striking , aka, nerve center hit. Dim Mak is suppose to block your chi or whatever and you would suffer a predicted death at a predetermined time.

Well, not sure I agree on the details of these comments, but close enough in generalities. The government agent thing amount simply to a flawed premise. Governments are concerned with technology and toys. There are very old and time tested things that I know the US Government ignores completely. Whatever. Besides, how long does it take to train a Remo Williams?

They are more attuned to making the best use of what they have access to , than you would care to give credit to.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
My mentioning of the fact that books on the topic are widely available in another part of the world is in reference to the fact that Dim Mak is no hidden secret in Asia. Charts of the mak are a dime a dozen.

I don't mean to sound critical, but how much time have you spent in Asia? It has been my experience (having lived in Japan) that nearly every person I met had zero knowledge of anything martial, much less the more esoteric and exotic aspects of martial training. And that goes for the martial artists as well...

When you talk about "charts of the mak" what are you referring to? Acupuncture point charts? They are common, sure, just like charts of the musculoskeletal system are common in the US...

But you don't ever hear of any case where Dim Mak has ever been used. When they settle scores, it is almost always with the good ol' BLADE (Samurai blade or the Chinese meat cleaver).

Where did you hear this? I hate to break the news to you, but at least in modern times (perhaps you are referring to the use of katana in a historical context?) even self-defense is frowned upon in Asia... Much less settling disagreements with swords!

If anything, Dim Mak is widely accepted as a lost art. The knowledge about the mak is widely known. But no one has been able to put it to practice. Every body takes it for granted that Dim Mak is for real. No one has actually seen anyone practice it. Hence my Big Foot analogy.

Now, are you talking about "widely known" in the US or Asia here? I guarantee you that such things are barely known at all, much less known widely.

Just curious. Good discussion so far...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[yilisifu]

The REAL art DOES exist but it isn't the garbage that's promoted in the el cheapo books by "master" like Ashida Kim and his ilk. There ARE people who have seen it but few who can actually do it because striking these points requires a very special kind of striking force which is developed through special training exercises which are also largely unknown.

Yiliquan 1 is right - problems in the Orient aren't settled with blades nowadays at all - fighting for ANY reason is frowned upon very heavily -:shrug:

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
I don't mean to sound critical, but how much time have you spent in Asia? It has been my experience (having lived in Japan) that nearly every person I met had zero knowledge of anything martial, much less the more esoteric and exotic aspects of martial training. And that goes for the martial artists as well...

Yes, people over there in general, couldn't give a rat *** about MA anymore than the JoeBlow over here does. But just walk in any bookstores in any Chinese dominated cities, and you will come across tons of MA texts. Dim Mak is a Chinese art. The Japanese may not know squat about it.

When you talk about "charts of the mak" what are you referring to? Acupuncture point charts? They are common, sure, just like charts of the musculoskeletal system are common in the US...

Dim Mak is Cantonese for "stiking" the "mak" with the "mak" being the "vital points" (for the lack of a better word). The charts plot those maks on the human body. In authentic Dim Mak, each of this mak is a target that correspondents to one of the 12 time zones. (I am over simplifying here. It has a lot more than this.) (I assume you already know that the Chinese time zone is 12 zones for our 24 hours, ie each of their hour = 2 of the regular hours we use. Of course, that was the past custom. Most modern day Chinese cannot evev tell you what those 12 time zones are. ) In DIm Mak, you target the mak according to the desired strike effect (ie how your target dies ) in accordance to the time zone.

Where did you hear this? I hate to break the news to you, but at least in modern times (perhaps you are referring to the use of katana in a historical context?) even self-defense is frowned upon in Asia... Much less settling disagreements with swords!

I hate to break the news to you. You have not read the local newspapers in most Chinese dominated cities. Read the crime page. Murder weapon of choice, the meat cleaver, Samurai blade, and this special 3 sided pointed tool used for metal work (it has a hardened needle sharp point and 3 blades, hence it opens up a nasty wound channel direct to vital organs. Most victims simply bled to death.

Self-defence is frown upon in Asia? HA! Please pull your head put of the sand dune. Settling score is the hottest thing! Ever heard of the term "saving face"? Or the Chinese proverb," For a gentleman, settling scores and getting even, even if it takes 10 years, is never too late" LMAO. That is actually taught in high school! How the hell can you even come up with such assertion? For the Chinese, (and most Asians who are not devouted Buddhists, or Christians), you are OBLIGATED to settle score and get even! . Else, you are not worthy of your family name, whatever hell that may happen to be.

I am sure your experience in Japan is a sheltered one.

LOL, people like you, are what they call "stupid American tourists" LOL. I don't mean it as a disrespect. It is entirely possible that your occupation requirement made it necessary that you interact within certain circles of well to do, well educated, higher echelons of the society.

Now, are you talking about "widely known" in the US or Asia here? I guarantee you that such things are barely known at all, much less known widely.

"Widely known" as in," over in Asia, within the Chinese communities, the existence of such an ancient art called Dim Mak is a widely known fact. Information about the maks and the effect of striking those maks, is in public domain. And in Asian, there is no such thing as "NC17" Those books are certainly not kept away from the kids.

"Guarantee that Dim Mak is barely known"? LMAO. You wanna bet? Call up any Chinese kid and ask him if he has ever heard of Dim Mak. The only problem would be, he might not heard of this English term. But I guarantee you, he has heard of Dim Mak in Chinese. Dim Mak is the cream of the crop of Chinese MA. An ancient lost art. You can bet your *** that every Chinese kid knows what it is. May be Japanese kids don't. That I wouldn't know.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by yilisifu
The REAL art DOES exist but it isn't the garbage that's promoted in the el cheapo books by "master" like Ashida Kim and his ilk. There ARE people who have seen it but few who can actually do it because striking these points requires a very special kind of striking force which is developed through special training exercises which are also largely unknown.

Yiliquan 1 is right - problems in the Orient aren't settled with blades nowadays at all - fighting for ANY reason is frowned upon very heavily -:shrug:

The first part is correct. As I have mentioned in previous posts, you need to strike the mak with blunt force, in order to have effect. That is why I was LMAO at the notion that some 14 yr old could copy something the 2 posted and wreck havoc. lol

As for the second part, I guess it is a good thing that your don't read the local newspapers.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Yes, people over there in general, couldn't give a rat *** about MA anymore than the JoeBlow over here does. But just walk in any bookstores in any Chinese dominated cities, and you will come across tons of MA texts. Dim Mak is a Chinese art. The Japanese may not know squat about it.

In Japanese, striking vital points is referred to as both atemi and kyusho. Were RyuShiKan able to post, I am sure he could clarify the differences even further. It is known and present in Japan as it is in other parts of Asia. My point, however, was that your assertion that Chinese dominated cities have scads of volumes dedicated to the art are not necessarily any better in quality that the scads of translations available in the US.

Dim Mak is Cantonese for "stiking" the "mak" with the "mak" being the "vital points" (for the lack of a better word). The charts plot those maks on the human body. In authentic Dim Mak, each of this mak is a target that correspondents to one of the 12 time zones. (I am over simplifying here. It has a lot more than this.) (I assume you already know that the Chinese time zone is 12 zones for our 24 hours, ie each of their hour = 2 of the regular hours we use. Of course, that was the past custom. Most modern day Chinese cannot evev tell you what those 12 time zones are. ) In DIm Mak, you target the mak according to the desired strike effect (ie how your target dies ) in accordance to the time zone.

Actually, it is not so much the "time zones" as it is a reference to where the qi has accumulated at any given time of the day. It is allegedly concentrated in certain meridians at certain times of the day, and striking points along meridians wherein qi has accumulated causes much more telling effects...

I hate to break the news to you. You have not read the local newspapers in most Chinese dominated cities. Read the crime page. Murder weapon of choice, the meat cleaver, Samurai blade, and this special 3 sided pointed tool used for metal work (it has a hardened needle sharp point and 3 blades, hence it opens up a nasty wound channel direct to vital organs. Most victims simply bled to death.

Please provide me with references to this... I would love to know what cities have hordes of samurai sword wielding lunatics wandering about on quests to avenge their personal honor... If I remember correctly, the weapon of choice in the US is a butcher knife as well, but I could be wrong. We don't, however, have swarms of butcher knife wielding loonies rushing up and down the streets. Crime statistics in any country can be read in numerous ways. Somehow I question the authenticity of the stats you refer to.

Self-defence is frown upon in Asia? HA! Please pull your head put of the sand dune. Settling score is the hottest thing! Ever heard of the term "saving face"? Or the Chinese proverb," For a gentleman, settling scores and getting even, even if it takes 10 years, is never too late" LMAO. That is actually taught in high school! How the hell can you even come up with such assertion? For the Chinese, (and most Asians who are not devouted Buddhists, or Christians), you are OBLIGATED to settle score and get even! . Else, you are not worthy of your family name, whatever hell that may happen to be.

Except for the fact that Japanese law prohibits self-defense (both sides of the fight are punished, regardless of the circumstances), and Chinese law is harsh regarding such conflicts as well... Again, the picture you paint of everyday life in these countries is in firm contradiction to the way things really are.

I am sure your experience in Japan is a sheltered one.

You're right... I led a very sheltered life in Japan. I had to, you see, in order to avoid bumping into a rogue samurai who might have then been obligated to save his family honor by challenging me to a duel...

LOL, people like you, are what they call "stupid American tourists" LOL. I don't mean it as a disrespect. It is entirely possible that your occupation requirement made it necessary that you interact within certain circles of well to do, well educated, higher echelons of the society.

If I am a "stupid American tourist," what does that make you? You still haven't explained your vast experience in these unnamed cities in Asia wherein you have gained such first hand knowledge of crime and vendettas. My occupation, for what it is worth, brought me in contact not with the well educated, higher echelons of society, but with everyday, regular folks...

"Widely known" as in," over in Asia, within the Chinese communities, the existence of such an ancient art called Dim Mak is a widely known fact. Information about the maks and the effect of striking those maks, is in public domain. And in Asian, there is no such thing as "NC17" Those books are certainly not kept away from the kids.

Yeah, and kids in Japan all know about ninjas... Doesn't mean that hiring a ninja is the method of choice for Japanese people to settle disputes or get ahead in competition with other businesses.

"Guarantee that Dim Mak is barely known"? LMAO. You wanna bet? Call up any Chinese kid and ask him if he has ever heard of Dim Mak. The only problem would be, he might not heard of this English term. But I guarantee you, he has heard of Dim Mak in Chinese. Dim Mak is the cream of the crop of Chinese MA. An ancient lost art. You can bet your *** that every Chinese kid knows what it is. May be Japanese kids don't. That I wouldn't know.

Again, Japanese kids all know about ninja, but ninja certainly aren't walking around the streets of Tokyo...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[chufeng]

I did an internet search (using two search engines, google and yahoo)...looking for violence with edged weapons in Asia...

Every reference to China or Japan was historical in nature...
Every current incident was in India, Sri Lanka, or the Middle East.

So, I would ask that you provide us with your reference for this wide spread meat-cleaver violence...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
In Japanese, striking vital points is referred to as both atemi and kyusho. Were RyuShiKan able to post, I am sure he could clarify the differences even further. It is known and present in Japan as it is in other parts of Asia. My point, however, was that your assertion that Chinese dominated cities have scads of volumes dedicated to the art are not necessarily any better in quality that the scads of translations available in the US.

Haven't seen any US translation. Can't comment on that. But needless to say, for every 1 Chinese text that is of acceptable quality, there is a dozen that are junk. Same sh*&%$ everywhere around the world.

Actually, it is not so much the "time zones" as it is a reference to where the qi has accumulated at any given time of the day. It is allegedly concentrated in certain meridians at certain times of the day, and striking points along meridians wherein qi has accumulated causes much more telling effects...

Out of my league. I don't know much about qi. I was just quoting based on what I understood from reading the text.

Don't forget that this whole debate started with my asking if there is any current evidence of Dim Mak. Hence I am not here to preach on DM. lol

Please provide me with references to this... I would love to know what cities have hordes of samurai sword wielding lunatics wandering about on quests to avenge their personal honor... If I remember correctly, the weapon of choice in the US is a butcher knife as well, but I could be wrong. We don't, however, have swarms of butcher knife wielding loonies rushing up and down the streets. Crime statistics in any country can be read in numerous ways. Somehow I question the authenticity of the stats you refer to.

Don't be ridiculous. There is no hordes of ronins running around any where.

1. You stated that fighting is frowned upon in Asia and even self-defence is disapproved. I can assure that, that is for foreign consumption. Afterall, that kind of bad image, is bad for tourism.

2. Getting even and settling score, are definitely not empty words. There are millions of ways of settling scores and getting even. But don't kid yourself. They keep score. The book will be balanced, eventually. Unlike what Americans and the western world are like to think, in many parts of the world, people settle their scores, behind the scene. They don't go around chewing their lips off, bragging about "honor" and blahblahblah. They are perfectly happy with stabbing you in the back, without you ever finding out it was them settling score. For example, the Iranians blew up the car driven by the the wife of the Captain of USS Vincent, and took out the Pan Am flight over Lockerbie (sp). They did those to avenge the accidental shot down of the Iranian jetliner by the USS Vincent.

In reference to crime statistics, in Asia, official statistics is considered part of foreign policy, ie, it is a matter of national interest to present the most favourable to the world. With that, one should realize how reliable are those numbers, whatever field they refer to.

If you wish to know what is really happening in Asia, learn the language, the custom and live among them. Then you can have access to their mind and soul. Asians have this thing, I don't know what you call it, they would defend and argue till they drop about how great things are at their end and they will never allow you to bad mouth anything about them, no matter how trivia it is. ONLY when left along, among themselves, then they start complaining and whining about how rotten everything really is. LMAO. If you can tab into that channel, then you can learn the real deals.

My parents were ex-pats. I spent over a decade in Asia. My grandparents were buried on top of a hill on the other side of the earth. They were loyal British subjects, who served the Crown as colonists. I speak several dialects.

Except for the fact that Japanese law prohibits self-defense (both sides of the fight are punished, regardless of the circumstances), and Chinese law is harsh regarding such conflicts as well... Again, the picture you paint of everyday life in these countries is in firm contradiction to the way things really are.

I have to laugh at the notion that since fighting is frown upon, and hence that it does not happen in Asia. You have got to be kidding me!! LM"Freaking"AO. Prostitution, gambling, drug running, smuggling are all frown upon in Japan. Are you going to tell me, with a straight face, that none of those happen in Japan?? LMAO

Chinese LAW? HA! You have got to be kidding me!! Chinese LAW and "arbitrary justice" is 2 sides of the same coin. In China, anything can happen to you, if the STATE apparatus wishes so.

China only begin to wake up to the rule of law. CHina has the worse of both communist totalitanism and robber-baron capitalism.

I am sorry if my cynicsm comes across as personal and disrespectful. I do not mean it to be personal at all. Rather, I have nothing but contempt for the FAKE tranquil, peaceful and harmonious images the Asians have successfully sold to the rest of the world.

You're right... I led a very sheltered life in Japan. I had to, you see, in order to avoid bumping into a rogue samurai who might have then been obligated to save his family honor by challenging me to a duel...

If I am a "stupid American tourist," what does that make you? You still haven't explained your vast experience in these unnamed cities in Asia wherein you have gained such first hand knowledge of crime and vendettas. My occupation, for what it is worth, brought me in contact not with the well educated, higher echelons of society, but with everyday, regular folks...

You work for Uncle Sam. LOL The hardest challenge you faced was at the local bars catering to GI, in Japan.

Look, you couldn't have experienced what I have. I worked with locals who thought nothing of slicing your head off. Life was cheap there, foreign or local.

Yeah, and kids in Japan all know about ninjas... Doesn't mean that hiring a ninja is the method of choice for Japanese people to settle disputes or get ahead in competition with other businesses.

Again, Japanese kids all know about ninja, but ninja certainly aren't walking around the streets of Tokyo...

I suppose you have not heard of the Yakuza?

Besides, Japan is NOT the whole Asia. And is noway representative of Asia

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Haven't seen any US translation. Can't comment on that. But needless to say, for every 1 Chinese text that is of acceptable quality, there is a dozen that are junk. Same sh*&%$ everywhere around the world./

No argument there.

Out of my league. I don't know much about qi. I was just quoting based on what I understood from reading the text.

Your understanding isn't necessarily incorrect, just not as far reaching as it could be. I only understand a very small amount of vital point striking myself...

Don't forget that this whole debate started with my asking if there is any current evidence of Dim Mak. Hence I am not here to preach on DM. lol

I admit, we may have drifted away from the original questions... Current evidence? I doubt that an M.E. in some county coroner's shop would really know what to look for... They would see (maybe) some bruising and have someone dead on their table. Beyond that, who knows what they would say?

Don't be ridiculous. There is no hordes of ronins running around any where.

My comment was intended to be ludicrous. I was simply pointing out that the way you came across made it sound as if every square inch of Asia was covered with vendetta-pursuing, cleaver-wielding nut jobs.

1. You stated that fighting is frowned upon in Asia and even self-defence is disapproved. I can assure that, that is for foreign consumption. Afterall, that kind of bad image, is bad for tourism.

Well, I admit that my experience is limited to Korea of 12+ years ago, and Japan for the last 4, but I know for a fact that the law patently forbids fighting in self-defense in Japan. Period.

2. Getting even and settling score, are definitely not empty words. There are millions of ways of settling scores and getting even. But don't kid yourself. They keep score. The book will be balanced, eventually. Unlike what Americans and the western world are like to think, in many parts of the world, people settle their scores, behind the scene. They don't go around chewing their lips off, bragging about "honor" and blahblahblah. They are perfectly happy with stabbing you in the back, without you ever finding out it was them settling score. For example, the Iranians blew up the car driven by the the wife of the Captain of USS Vincent, and took out the Pan Am flight over Lockerbie (sp). They did those to avenge the accidental shot down of the Iranian jetliner by the USS Vincent.

I hope I didn't come across as seeming to think that revenge was never pursued. I know it is. However, as I stated above, your comment seemed a bit over the top regarding the volume of vengeful Asians following up on settling old scores.

In reference to crime statistics, in Asia, official statistics is considered part of foreign policy, ie, it is a matter of national interest to present the most favourable to the world. With that, one should realize how reliable are those numbers, whatever field they refer to.

Perhaps your experience is different than mine, what with your being on the streets of Asia and all, but I work in law, and specifically dealt with the interaction between the US Government and the Government of Japan regarding legal issues. Crime statistics, at least in Japan, are not secret matters of state. They exist, and are publicized in daily newspapers.

My parents were ex-pats. I spent over a decade in Asia. My grandparents were buried on top of a hill on the other side of the earth. They were loyal British subjects, who served the Crown as colonists. I speak several dialects.

Be that as it may, you still haven't detailed your decade of experience. When were you there, at what age, and in what countries? I'm not necessarily trying to poke holes in your comments, but if you don't provide details it makes it difficult for me to understand where you are coming from with your story.

I have to laugh at the notion that since fighting is frown upon, and hence that it does not happen in Asia. You have got to be kidding me!! LM"Freaking"AO. Prostitution, gambling, drug running, smuggling are all frown upon in Japan. Are you going to tell me, with a straight face, that none of those happen in Japan?? LMAO

Never said it didn't happen. I said it didn't happen quite the way you portrayed it.

You work for Uncle Sam. LOL The hardest challenge you faced was at the local bars catering to GI, in Japan.

I understand you probably intended that comment to be taken in good fun, but personally I am extremely offended on a number of levels... I'm not even going to give voice to the ways in which that angers me. Suffice it to say that up until this part of your post, I thought we would likely be able to reach some degree of agreement on this thread... :angry:

Look, you couldn't have experienced what I have. I worked with locals who thought nothing of slicing your head off. Life was cheap there, foreign or local.

Whatever.

I suppose you have not heard of the Yakuza?

I have. Have you ever had to deal with them face to face? If so, you would find they are not quite the way they are portrayed in the media... :shrug:

Besides, Japan is NOT the whole Asia. And is noway representative of Asia

Never said it was. Just provided the info as background from where my beliefs stem.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
....I understand you probably intended that comment to be taken in good fun, but personally I am extremely offended on a number of levels... I'm not even going to give voice to the ways in which that angers me. Suffice it to say that up until this part of your post, I thought we would likely be able to reach some degree of agreement on this thread... :angry:

I don't have time to address the rest. have to just deal with this first.

Oh c'mon. You being in the military, haven't you heard enough of the army jokes along the line about an army guy bragging about his war wound and all, then his army buddy chimed in with ," Yeah, he got that from falling off a bar stool" ? LOL

You are JAG. Are you a trial lawyer? I would assume a little elbow to the rib ought to be something you are accustomed to.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

I don't want to go on the internet and participate in a "my XYZ is bigger than yours" kind of argument. It is silly to argue about "Have you dealed with the Yakuza? Well I have." Then it will just get to " No. But have you done this and that....blahblahblah.."

I have my experience in another part of the world. It is a lot different from that of a typical military line or staff personel. You have Uncle Sam behind you. People like me and my parents, do not. People in your position will always be accorted preferrential treatment. That is the way the world works. We tend to think the rest of the world would look at us in such and such way. But more often than not, they actually look at us very differently from what we have pressumed they would.

Asians will always harbor "us vs the outsiders" mentality. Every thing is done for show. I think our foreign policy biggest failure is due to our lack of understanding of how the rest of the world thinks. We assume they see things the way we do, afterall we are a rational people, and so do they. Right? Unfortunately, things are never as clear cut. Other people care a lot about things and issues, that we Americans don't give a rat *** about. OTOH, we care a lot about things that they have utter contempt for.

 

[chufeng]

JN,

I can address some of what Yiliquan1 was alluding to...

In the past, during the draft, many soldiers did, in fact, get out of hand...and of course, those are the only stories we hear about...

The Army of today is vastly different (I know, I've seen the military of the sixties, through my uncle, and experienced the military from the mid 1970s to the present)...today's soldier is professional, courteous, and genuinely cares about how he is perceived by the public...it is extremely frustrating for today's soldier to have to deal with the prejudgements of those who still want to hold the older stereotypes up as HOW our soldiers are today...Most soldiers are high-school graduates; many hold associate's degrees, bachelor's degrees, and some even have master's degrees (NO, I'm not talking about the officer corps...I'm talking about those who do the work, day in and day out, the enlisted soldier)...

Further, your comment assumed that Yiliquan1 was a "typical" (read stereotyped in the wrong way) soldier who got off work and ate chow and then hit the bars...WRONG!!!

He is a family man and has two beautiful and gifted children...
He would finish work and go home to his family, just like so many "normal" Americans do...
His excursions into the Japanese scene was not as a tourist but as a seeker...he trained with a variety of martial artists...he offered classes...he mingled with the common folks...

NO, say it ain't so...but I do say it is so...he showed the locals the respect they deserved...not the "I am an American, and therefore you should respect me," but the, "Thank you for hosting me in this wonderful country," sort of way...

It seems that you LYAO a lot in your posts...unfortunate, because some of us actually want to share some good information...

I appreciate your intrusions from time to time...keeps us on our toes and honest...but you occasionally cross the line...I can forgive that, but remember that on the other end of your keyboard is another HUMAN being...

Godspeed to the soldiers who do an outstanding job every day...
It is because of their own spilt blood that dissenters are able to express their twisted views of reality...we hold dear the freedoms granted by our constitution, even to those who would beat us over the head with those same freedoms.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

I was joking about his "biggest challenge was at the local bar". Look, the guy is JAG. No one would dare to touch his hair!

I made no assumption about what he did in Japan or anywhere or how he conducts his off-base social life. Not even talking about those at all.

My point was, he was an officer, a representative of the US in a foreign land. His circle of interaction was affected by his official status. You don't get to do what you want when you represent Uncle Sam.

IF you are a representative of the USA, you get preferential treatment. That is ALL I WAS SAYING.