Pressure Points in MMA

[crushing]

Anybody intentionally use pressure points in MMA? I have some vague thoughts in my head and am curious if anyone has applied pressure point knowledge to MMA fighting

I haven't actually fought MMA, and I've only recently gotten into learning pressure points, but I don't see why they couldn't be used in MMA.

One thing we have done in class is hit the inside leg nerve (LR-9?) with the elbows when in guard to try to force the leg into a position to get in half guard. It may not work on the more experienced MMAers.

But, another example: if you are trying to put an armbar on someone and they have the hold their opposing hand defense to prevent their arm from being straightened, could activating L-8 help release the opponents hold on himself increasing the chances that you can pull off the armbar technique?

I haven't tried it, I'm just throwing that out there.

 

[punisher73]

It depends on if you are talking specifically pressure points or atemi. Atemi is more striking vital spots on the body such as tip of the jaw, side of the neck, etc.

But, there are SOOOO many "pressure points" that whatever you hit is going to be one of them. So many of the vital spots also have a pressure point in the same location. For example, in the UFC Robbie Lawler vs. Tiki: when you watch the fight Robbie misses with a hook and hits Tiki on the side of the neck which is what knocks him out. If you go with TCM it is Stomach Pt-9. It also contains 3 major nerves right there along the SCM (the 3 that seperate in your arm to become the radial, ulna, medial).

Many of the targets would not be legal in an MMA situation. Even though the side of the neck is a very accessible target for an MMA fighter they can't just hit it due to the rules. Same with back of the neck strikes. But, MMA fighters mostly train for moves that will work a high percentage of the time for them with the rule set (different strategies with Pride rules vs. UFC rules with the ring/cage and techs allowed for example). Are many of them going to spend the limited time working on something that will have a low percentage to be able to use? Probably not. Which is why I don't think we will see a large amount of fighters trying to learn PP whether it works or not.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

I haven't actually fought MMA, and I've only recently gotten into learning pressure points, but I don't see why they couldn't be used in MMA.

One thing we have done in class is hit the inside leg nerve (LR-9?) with the elbows when in guard to try to force the leg into a position to get in half guard. It may not work on the more experienced MMAers.

But, another example: if you are trying to put an armbar on someone and they have the hold their opposing hand defense to prevent their arm from being straightened, could activating L-8 help release the opponents hold on himself increasing the chances that you can pull off the armbar technique?

I haven't tried it, I'm just throwing that out there.

I suppose it depends on how exactly you're performing them. Pain compliance tends not to work too well, due to a mix of the pain tolerance of the fighter and the adrenaline of the fight. So generally rather than attacking or pressuing a point because it will cause pain, your objective should instead be ones that cause set physical reactions, or have to obey certain physical rules.

For example, the escape from the guard you mentioned? We learned something similar, where you place your palms in and under their ribs, and your elbows on the soft spot of their inner thighs, and use this to create pressure and leverage enough to pop the legs open. It may also be neccessary to as it was phrased to me "throw your *** out behind you" in order to make enough pressure. Any pain caused during this is just a bonus, the objective is the physics as it were.

With regards your arm-bar suggestion, I'd need a little clarification on the point you are referring to?

As for striking pressure points, falls into a couple of categories. Striking muscle groups for example can be very effective, eg shin kick his thigh, or elbowing the arm muscles, but it requires alot strikes for the effects to kick in, and on more conditioned or muscled fighters, you sometimes might as well be hitting a brick wall.
Striking points that have a certain physical reaction eg jaw, temple, solar plexus, liver, kidney, spleen, tends to be fairly effective if you get it right, so in its way those could be considered pressure points. Striking at other points however, you're looking for ones that will provoke reactions other than pain, simply because pain is not a reliable weapon. Anything that messes up his breathing, or interferes with his bodies ability to move properly, would be the right way to go I imagine.

 

[crushing]

With regards your arm-bar suggestion, I'd need a little clarification on the point you are referring to?

One of the defenses against the armbar is to grab the other arm/wrist to prevent the arm from being extended. There are pressure points in the wrist that are supposed to weaken the grip when activated. I thought that if one could weaken that grip by activating a pressure point, one may be more likely to succeed in extending the arm for a submission.

It seems like it may work in theory, but I don't know how well it may work in practice. Factors that you mention about increased pain tolerance and adrenaline may be limiting factors in succeeding.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

One of the defenses against the armbar is to grab the other arm/wrist to prevent the arm from being extended. There are pressure points in the wrist that are supposed to weaken the grip when activated. I thought that if one could weaken that grip by activating a pressure point, one may be more likely to succeed in extending the arm for a submission.

It seems like it may work in theory, but I don't know how well it may work in practice. Factors that you mention about increased pain tolerance and adrenaline may be limiting factors in succeeding.

I'd say rather than causing pain in the wrist, perhaps look at manipulation of or pressure on the wrist joint? Its something I'll have to play round with a little more myself.

 

[loyalonehk]

I've never fought MMA and just recently began watching within the last 2 years (so I don't know very much), but would a submission like a rear-naked-choke be considered a pressure point attack?

If you're applying pressure to a specific point(s), like the carotid arteries, would this qualify as a pressure point attack, depending on the definition?

Don't know if this qualifies as an answer. Maybe call it "Dirty MMA", with the rear choke applied, I like to drive my thumb into TW17 behind the ear. If nothing else it causes a bit of an Oh S*#T reaction/panic, distracting them away from his counter for a second or two.

I'll also knead my elbows into Sp 11 to help pass the guard or escape from the Boston crab.

Just food for thought. I dont compete in the "Sport" side of it, but we play pretty rough with "surviving the day" in mind.

:whip: I love these guys... LOL

 

[Tez3]

I HATE ELBOWS TO THE INNER THIGH!

I end up with a row of little bruises on the inside of my thighs! We put our hands on the persons hips rather than the ribs, means you are postured up that bit higher, makes it harder to dislodge or get a triangle choke on you. Once you have passed the guard keep his leg on the floor with your knee on that spot inside his leg just above the knee,while you get to side control.

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

I HATE ELBOWS TO THE INNER THIGH!

Whole heartedly agreed and seconded!

 

[thetruth]

Ali used them in boxing, so why not in MMA?

Is that a known fact or something Dillman told the world cos they trained a bit together and had their picture taken. The only person I've ever heard say that is George or some one who heard it from George.


Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

My understanding was that was just something Dillman had started basically just to add to his own reputation, but that is just what I had heard.
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[DavidCC]

I am not 100% sure of this, but I believe Dillman worked with Ali years BEFORE he got into kyusho / pressure points. Dillman was a widely known martial artist before the PP stuff.

 

[punisher73]

I remember Ali saying he knocked out one of his opponent's with a "karate" punch. But, it was just a right cross. That was when he did train with Dillman.

 

[Selfcritical]

I personally think that Pressure Point fighting and MMA fighting will never coexist. I mean if you're going to introduce pressure points next you'll have to include joint locks,



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And what precisely are armbars and Kimura's then?

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

My appologies I didn't totally make my point (I do this sometimes) By joint locks I meant the kind of locks you see in Aikido specific wrist locks etc, more like someone using say an Aikido joint lock and control to take someone to the ground, I meant more in that sense. If that makes any sense.
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[Tez3]

My appologies I didn't totally make my point (I do this sometimes) By joint locks I meant the kind of locks you see in Aikido specific wrist locks etc, more like someone using say an Aikido joint lock and control to take someone to the ground, I meant more in that sense. If that makes any sense.​

We use Aikido to take people down if we can in MMA. We also use it for self defence. In fact we'll use anything and we're lucky that our instructor has studied many different styles, he's ex military and had to change styles a lot when posted to new camps. Apart from that he's hugely interested in all martial arts, we're very lucky to have him.

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

Well then, I will retract my previous statement apparently I was wrong, it has happened before and it will happen again. Thanks for pointing me more in the right direction!
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[thetruth]

I am not 100% sure of this, but I believe Dillman worked with Ali years BEFORE he got into kyusho / pressure points. Dillman was a widely known martial artist before the PP stuff.

I'd like to ask Ali about his history with Dillman(I think it may differ from Georges stories) and George wasn't very well known at all before he started pressure points and breaking stuff..

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[The Elemental]

Well, what about Bas' Livershot, does that count?

 

[Tez3]

Well, what about Bas' Livershot, does that count?

That is so bad it can count as anything it wants! It's the worse way to be KOd, been put down twice with that in training and I don't think I've ever felt so ill! At least a KO you just go out and wake up!

 

[punisher73]

Nope, a liver shot would be considered "atemi" or vital point striking which attacks weak points/structures of the body as opposed to striking specific acupuncture points.

Very effective no matter what you call it though.


I do like how you could kick someone in the head and Bas will still call it a liver shot. LOL