Prefixing Your Nationality?

[Jenna]

Concerning nationality, do you ever prefix your nationality with your ancestoral roots, or your cultural or ethnic background? French-Canadian, Irish-American for example.

If you do this, does it only happen under certain specific circumstances or it is how you are fundamentally self-defined in your heart and mind?

When you do this, does this in any way imply that your cultural roots take precedent over your nationality when it comes to expressing your identity?

Thank you.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I would have to name every Country north of, and including (gasp!), France; so, that would make me a whomeverlookedgoodatthetime-American.

 

[MA-Caver]

Me father's ancestors have come over from Ireland during pre-Revoluntionary days. My mother's family from Holland were part of the original settler's or immediately afterwards. Either way... While I'm proud of the ancestrial roots I have, I have and always will call myself an American. There's been enough generations born/died in this country where there's no need for a prefix. I won't forget my roots and hope someday to actually visit those far-away lands, but I'll also won't forget where I was born-n-raised.

I think prefixes on nationality should be used if a person is first generation in whatever country they want to settle in. In my last job, I made friends with a man who directly immigrated from the auld sod, Ireland. A delightful chap of whom I'm proud to be friends with. We've discussed this topic and agreed that he should rightly be called Irish-American, whereas I should only claim one country because of the aforementioned generations born and died here before me.
I have a beef with the "politically correctness" of the term African American to describe native-born black people in this country. A vast majority have more than several generations born and died in this country in their family linage before tracing the roots back to that continent. To me they're just Americans... like me, they're black or even more correctly of the negroid race but still Americans by nationality. Likewise with Mexican-Americans and so on. I dated a lovely gal whose parents were first generation immigrants (legally) from Mexico. She and her siblings were born in this country. To me, they're all Americans. Her parents, Mexican Americans.

Someone asks me where my family is from I'll proudly say Ireland & Holland. They ask me which am I? American.

 

[granfire]

I think you should not be allowed to call yourself after something you can't find on the map (but that would in turn mean a lot of folks could not call themselves Americans either) :lol:

 

[Jenna]

Me father's ancestors have come over from Ireland during pre-Revoluntionary days. My mother's family from Holland were part of the original settler's or immediately afterwards. Either way... While I'm proud of the ancestrial roots I have, I have and always will call myself an American. There's been enough generations born/died in this country where there's no need for a prefix. I won't forget my roots and hope someday to actually visit those far-away lands, but I'll also won't forget where I was born-n-raised.

I think prefixes on nationality should be used if a person is first generation in whatever country they want to settle in. In my last job, I made friends with a man who directly immigrated from the auld sod, Ireland. A delightful chap of whom I'm proud to be friends with. We've discussed this topic and agreed that he should rightly be called Irish-American, whereas I should only claim one country because of the aforementioned generations born and died here before me.
I have a beef with the "politically correctness" of the term African American to describe native-born black people in this country. A vast majority have more than several generations born and died in this country in their family linage before tracing the roots back to that continent. To me they're just Americans... like me, they're black or even more correctly of the negroid race but still Americans by nationality. Likewise with Mexican-Americans and so on. I dated a lovely gal whose parents were first generation immigrants (legally) from Mexico. She and her siblings were born in this country. To me, they're all Americans. Her parents, Mexican Americans.

Someone asks me where my family is from I'll proudly say Ireland & Holland. They ask me which am I? American.

So MA-C, you are saying that you believe this prefixing is suitable for first generation immigrants? Would you feel this is appropriate simply because they are not born in that nation and need time to adjust?

Would you say it is in any way the duty of those first generation immigrants to allow themselves to become wholly assimilated into their new national identity as expeditiously as possible? Or should allowance be made for the possibility that they may never see themselves as wholly belonging to that national identity?

 

[MaxiMe]

I would have to name every Country north of, and including (gasp!), France; so, that would make me a whomeverlookedgoodatthetime-American.

Just another one of us Heinz 57 Americans

 

[granfire]

So MA-C, you are saying that you believe this prefixing is suitable for first generation immigrants? Would you feel this is appropriate simply because they are not born in that nation and need time to adjust?

Would you say it is in any way the duty of those first generation immigrants to allow themselves to become wholly assimilated into their new national identity as expeditiously as possible? Or should allowance be made for the possibility that they may never see themselves as wholly belonging to that national identity?

Sounded to me more like after the first generation it becomes rather silly....especially when several generations before you have not seen the mother land.

franco-canadians are a bit different though, since they are in fact different and still speaking french...

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I have always referred to myself as "American," but not out of some jingoistic nationalist desire. Part of it stems from the fact that my dad told me that our family (his side of it anyway) was from Ireland. Turns out when I started to really dig into the family history, we're from Wales. So although I used to answer "Irish-American" if asked my ancestry (and I've got a Celtic Knot design tattoo on my right forearm), I suppose I'm "Welsh-American" in reality; or "Welsh-German-American" if you consider my mother's side as well. But who cares? I'm as loyal an American today as I was when I said I was calling myself "Irish-American." Loyalty is not defined by what my pride in my ancestry happens to be. Puhleeze. I think it's a petty squabbling point, made by people who have an ax to grind against recent immigrants.

Ultimately, though I don't care if people refer to themselves as "Polish-American" or "African-American" or "Mexican-American" if they want to. I seldom see that as something divisive as the ultra-nationalists do. I think their demand that Americans refer to themselves as 'unhyphenated Americans' is ridiculous.

"If they were loyal Americans, they would not call themselves XYZ-Americans, but just plain Americans." Unalloyed BS.

 

[NSRTKD]

I will only prefix with the term "American-Canadian" because I'm an immigrant from the USA, but more often I refer to myself as a "Gypsy" because my ancestors were all Romani from Poland and Galician gypsies who originated in Russia, and my mother's family travelled when she was growing up, and I as well as an adult, though my parents were very stationary when I was a child.

 

[Nomad]

In short, no.

 

[MaxiMe]

Sounded to me more like after the first generation it becomes rather silly....especially when several generations before you have not seen the mother land.

franco-canadians are a bit different though, since they are in fact different and still speaking french...

And it can get sillyer (more silly). California-American just sounds silly.

 

[Steve]

I don't call myself a Norwegian-American, but I do identify with the community and will readily claim the heritage. Usually, it's a joking thing, referring to my "viking roots." But it's part of how I was raised. Bunch of scandinavians on both sides of my family. I just have an innate desire to polka, and to sail to the small islands around here and pillage a little.

My wife's family is largely of Irish descent, and she's pretty much the same way. She's not Irish, as I'm not Norwegian.

Personally, I don't see any problem with it. We all like to know where we come from, and it just happens that America is a very young country. Most of us have relatives who moved here from elsewhere. When I was stationed in Germany, I found myself drinking one time in a gasthaus in a small village (well, not just one time...). Anyway, got talking to the locals. Don't remember exactly how it came up, but at one point an older woman leaned over and patted me on the arm. She said, "You Americans are so young. This gasthaus is twice as old as your country." Made an impression, and whenever a subject like this comes up, I think of that old lady.

Point is, there's a natural tendency to want to attach ourselves to things that are somewhat permanent. Heritage and culture are just parts of who we are. While some of you here might not do this with cultural or ethnicity, people do the same thing with Martial Arts. I mean, what difference does it make if your MA has been around for thousands of years? But it's kind of cool to think about. Isn't it? Gives you an attachment to something bigger than yourself, to think that you might be, in perhaps some small way, similar to shaolin monks, fearless samurai, knights or maybe even vikings.

I don't see anything wrong with it, and in fact, I think it's pretty cool.

 

[MA-Caver]

So MA-C, you are saying that you believe this prefixing is suitable for first generation immigrants? Would you feel this is appropriate simply because they are not born in that nation and need time to adjust?

Would you say it is in any way the duty of those first generation immigrants to allow themselves to become wholly assimilated into their new national identity as expeditiously as possible? Or should allowance be made for the possibility that they may never see themselves as wholly belonging to that national identity?

My Irish born friend is a good example. You listen to him talk and the accent is thick enough to cut with a knife, so obviously he ain't frum 'round hear (with us being in Chattanooga TN). So it gives a identification that he is an immigrant who is now an American citizen. If he were to ever have children born in this country then they could/would/should rightly be named Americans. It'll say so on the birth certificate wouldn't it? Even if the child moves to Ireland and settles there and claims citizenship they would more-likely be referred to as American-Irish (as odd as that may sound). Adjustment to cultural differences is more difficult for the immigrating parents than it is for the children born to them.
Would that my parents moved to Germany, England, Australia or China and I were born there, I'd have an easier time culturally than they would.
So yeah, it helps at least with interactions with other people if the question arises.

 

[Sukerkin]

If they wish it, then people can call themselves what they want I suppose. It is a bit daft tho'. Even if I trim off all the racial roots that I have as a resident of the UK {born to a family with a recorded 1000 year history in the same town :lol:}, I'd still have to call myself English-British if I were to follow such a convention.

 

[Steve]

If they wish it, then people can call themselves what they want I suppose. It is a bit daft tho'. Even if I trim off all the racial roots that I have as a resident of the UK {born to a family with a recorded 1000 year history in the same town :lol:}, I'd still have to call myself English-British if I were to follow such a convention.

The very fact that you have a family with a recorded 1000 year history in the same town speaks exactly to the point I was trying to make.

 

[Sukerkin]

The very fact that you have a family with a recorded 1000 year history in the same town speaks exactly to the point I was trying to make.

:chuckles: Aye, I reckon so . Mind you, I have emigrated ... I live 25 (-ish) miles away from that town :lol:

 

[Bill Mattocks]

:chuckles: Aye, I reckon so . Mind you, I have emigrated ... I live 25 (-ish) miles away from that town :lol:

It might be noted that in the USA, perhaps unlike anywhere else, it is not generally considered rude to ask someone 'where are you from'? There are always some wiseacres who will say "Pittsburg," but most people understand that the question refers to their ancestry. And it's not generally because of any particular like or dislike for any given ancestry, it's just curiosity. Here in Detroit, we have "Mexicantown", "Corktown," Greektown," and other areas that are officially called that - that is their name on maps and road signs. No one takes offense at being called "Mexican-American" if their ancestry is Mexican here, it's just an interesting fact about them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicantown#Mexicantown

With very few exceptions, no one in the USA is 'from' the USA originally, so we find each other's ancestry interesting. Some of us do, anyway. Others get all steamed up about it, as if we stopped having an ancestry when our great-grandparents moved here.

 

[Archangel M]

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.

This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance.

But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.

The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.

-Theodore Roosevelt Addressing the Knights of Columbus in New York City

12 October 1915

 

[Jenna]

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.

This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance.

But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.

The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.

-Theodore Roosevelt Addressing the Knights of Columbus in New York City

12 October 1915

This is what I was wondering. Is there in any way a duty upon those who immigrate to allow themselves to be assimilated quickly almost foregoing their previous affiliations?

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye, I've seen that before and I do reckon the man has a serious point :nods:.