ppko & xequat take a look

[The Kai]

Im gonna drop him a line and see if I can go up and check it out, thanks!

Let me know when you are coming up please!!

Todd

 

[ppko]

Aren't you the guy that kept saying I was always trying to promote my teacher??????

Sorry to say but it seems like that is all you ever do........don't you know anyone else that does what you reffer to as "kyusho"?

I don't know what you are talking about, but any way Dusty Seale is not my instructor (he was at one time but it is now T.A. Frazer). If you are refering to me posting GM Dillmans website that was only so he can get a hold of Dusty or whom ever else that he wanted to see. If you are refering to the fact that I chose someone in DKI than of course I will choose someone in DKI it is the group that I know best. Would you rather have me refer him to one of your guys, if that is the case than go see Ron Richards, he is in Indianapolis go here http://www.kushu.com/id.html should get you there

 

[stephen]

More Clips:

http://www.markklineskarate.com/ClipsnEvents.htm


And an interesting article:

http://www.blackbeltmag.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=233&keyword=thomas&summary=1&startsum=1

 

[RRouuselot]

1) I don't know what you are talking about, but any way Dusty Seale is not my instructor (he was at one time but it is now T.A. Frazer).
2) Would you rather have me refer him to one of your guys, http://www.kushu.com/id.html

1) In another post you claimed I constantly promote my teacher.....which I replied that I very rarely if ever mention him.

2) Not really.

 

[RRouuselot]

1) ....and also to call BS on what you consider unrealistic MA.

2) There were several questions asked of you ref your training etc that I could not find answers to. So, if you can either answer or post a link to a previous answer I could not find I would appreciate that.

3) One person asked you about the difference between atemi and Kyusho, they gave their opinion you said "not even close" and gave no further comment. Please advise the difference.

4) I know several people that have been to Oyata seminars and have seen some clips of him. In those clips he K.O'd a standing uke. At the seminar he k.o'd standing uke's. Why is it ok for him to do this as a DEMO of the techniques effectiveness, but not others? PLUS, he hit them hard! By the way, I do not believe in K.O'ing anyone at a seminar to show why things work. No DEMO is worth the possible detriment of your training partners health and safety.

5) I fully understand your continuing quest for more realism in the PP world so as to speak. …..with no real knowledge of what they do should not be a part of your crusade.

6) You also mentioned the incorrect useage of TCM terminology and "science". Do you agree that to use the point names as a point of reference for where to attack is valid?

7) You mentioned that people who find a non-responder are using the wrong type of attack to the wrong point. I disagree entirely. Why on earth would you need to use a certain type of attack and certain hand position to attack a weak area of the body? Just hit it, real hard. There is no way you can pick and choose "types of strike" in a real fight. That is just not realistic

Regards

Russell

Oh what the hell it’s New Years…….



1) We call that having an opinion in America….



2) I am pretty sure I posted it somewhere on here



3) And if you would have bothered to read my post and then his post you would understand……obviously you didn’t read it.



4) Oh really…………well your one up on me then because in the last 2+ decades of being in his Assoc. I have yet to see that.




5) I am not on a quest to for more realism in the PP world….and as for “having no real knowledge for what they do”……well let’s see….I have seen Dillman first hand, if memory serves he is quite the demi-god over at Kyusho.com isn’t?, seen Moneymakers and Rick Clarks students first hand…one was a 4th dan. Plus some other folks connected to KI, DKI, and DSI…….



6) No I don’t since those “points” are not actually being used. The topic of why Acupuncture "points" are not really being used has been hammered to death on these threads. Sorry, but you will just have to "catch up" on your own here on MT. I posted this on another forum a while back.
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica] First off don’t confuse acupuncture points with those areas used in kyusho/atemi jutsu.
Folks that equivocate the two ([/font][font=verdana, arial, helvetica]acupuncture points & kyusho/atemi areas) [/font][font=verdana, arial, helvetica]are quacks and don’t really know what they are talking about. I refer to them as “color by numbers kyusho” people.....connect ST5 to GB13 and then ST36....
The folks that buy into “color by numbers kyusho” will tell you that they are hitting a “kyusho point” for example stomach 5 or blah, blah, blah…..it’s a bunch of crap…. Basically any area on the head that is struck with enough force will knock you out. [/font]



7) Did I say that? I don’t think I did.

 

[RRouuselot]

More Clips:

http://www.markklineskarate.com/ClipsnEvents.htm

I have seen those......all I can say is what a load of crap.

 

[ppko]

1) In another post you claimed I constantly promote my teacher.....which I replied that I very rarely if ever mention him.

2) Not really.

I never wrote that

 

[RRouuselot]

I never wrote that

I see.....perhaps it was xequat then

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

Sorry for saying this, but that is not what I consider martial arts, that i just plain stupidity.

I agree, I mostly posted that as a joke (should have put a in there somewhere to clarrify my intentions . . .)

However, I still think it provides a more realistic knockout response than the other video clips posted which show mostly controlled break-falls. I dunno - maybe a skilled martial artist can take ukemi while unconcious. ?

 

[RRouuselot]

I agree, I mostly posted that as a joke (should have put a in there somewhere to clarrify my intentions . . .)

However, I still think it provides a more realistic knockout response than the other video clips posted which show mostly controlled break-falls. I dunno - maybe a skilled martial artist can take ukemi while unconcious. ?

Yes it does. Since his body motion looks more like someone who has lost neuromuscular control instead of someone that is trying to fall down or fall like someone being KOed or stunned.

Funny how so many of the mpegs on those URLs say "XXXX KO" on them, then when people watch them & comment here on how fake they look and how they don't look or act like somone who has actually been KOed the people that posted those mpegs or are connected to them say "well er..um...they aren't really KOed but kind of 'brown out'...they were just stunned....that's not really the way we train"
Hey, I say if that's not really they you train then why show it? Why not show the ones that do represent the way you train? .....Also if you don't KO someone in the mpeg don't claim that is what you are doing in the description.
If they do keep posting mpegs that are of the same caliber then they shouldn’t be too shocked to receive criticism.

People have also said these are “instructional” mpegs…..let’s look at what they teach….how to be “attacked” by someone in an unrealistic manner that actually doesn’t even move and how to hit someone that’s not moving in an unrealistic manner…..

These same people defend those mpegs saying it’s for the sake of “safety”……

I am wondering whose safety they are referring to…..the defenders or the attackers.

It certainly doesn’t make the “uke”/attacker any safer….in fact it is probably more dangerous to stand still and take a shot than it is to be moving.

I think it boils down to this one simple truth…it’s easier for the “defender” to look better demo-ing if the attacker isn’t moving. You are almost guaranteed to hit your mark every time of the guy is motionless.






I’ll bet dollars to donuts we start to see more “realistic” mpegs posted of the next few months or so. By “realistic” I mean “uke” will actually start to move when he attacks instead of looking like he is waiting for a bus, learn how to act like he is knocked out better etc..etc..

 

[D.Cobb]

1) Hopefully that situation will be rectified.

Ahh now you're teasing me

2) ….and lose control of yours…….litigation is still pretty rampant in the west, isn’t it?.

Whilst the litigation rate is climbing here, it still hasn't reached the level of the US. I understand that in some states of the US, if your attacker goes out, then you are automatically arrested, regardless of the circumstances. Here self defence is still legal.

3) I have that one! It’s funny as hell..

Yeah, I love it too.

4) I am afraid I have to disagree with ya on this one Dave. From what I see on those mpegs, and the few KI people I have met in real life it looks more like a good way to develop bad habits. As I mentioned before the opening the guy that was supposed to be defending made you could drive a truck through.

I can only speak from my own experiences. Whilst I agree with you re the vids, I would have to say that I have actually increased my hand speed since starting with KI. Of course this could be down to the fact that my teacher is only a little bloke, and has 4 older brothers who are all martial artists. Everytime they learnt something new, they'd test it on him. Now he does his KI stuff on them, and us.

Not to mention, the slowness of the strikes they deliver. I counted between the strikes on one of the mpegs and it was 1-1,000…strike…..2-1,000…strike…..3-1,000 strike.

Again, no argument there.

I seriously do not think they go slow for demo or instructional purposes…..I think they are thinking about the next move…..you can actually see them thinking about it on some of them.

I have actually had one of our more junior guys comment on this happening to him whilst training. He found it quite uncomfortable, but we managed to get him out of it. All he needed was a realistic attack, all of a sudden, no time to think.

To have any effect, strikes should be done…bam, bam, bam. Non-stop, rapid succession.

My teacher said years ago that if “someone throw 1 ball you catch, 2 balls you catch, but 3 balls same time you no can catch”………just something to think about.

and of course there are the times(few and far between) when you get that one good shot in, and everything comes together for that split second. That makes you feel good when you get it in on your teacher, and he hits the deck. It's these good shots that make guys like me stay with KI, until something better comes along.


--Dave :asian:

 

[D.Cobb]

5) I am not on a quest to for more realism in the PP world….and as for “having no real knowledge for what they do”……well let’s see….I have seen Dillman first hand, if memory serves he is quite the demi-god over at Kyusho.com isn’t?, seen Moneymakers and Rick Clarks students first hand…one was a 4th dan. Plus some other folks connected to KI, DKI, and DSI…….

Actually Robert, most of the guys at KI have tried to distance themselves from GD.

6) No I don’t since those “points” are not actually being used. The topic of why Acupuncture "points" are not really being used has been hammered to death on these threads. Sorry, but you will just have to "catch up" on your own here on MT. I posted this on another forum a while back.
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica] First off don’t confuse acupuncture points with those areas used in kyusho/atemi jutsu.
Folks that equivocate the two ([/font][font=verdana, arial, helvetica]acupuncture points & kyusho/atemi areas) [/font][font=verdana, arial, helvetica]are quacks and don’t really know what they are talking about. I refer to them as “color by numbers kyusho” people.....connect ST5 to GB13 and then ST36....
The folks that buy into “color by numbers kyusho” will tell you that they are hitting a “kyusho point” for example stomach 5 or blah, blah, blah…..it’s a bunch of crap…. Basically any area on the head that is struck with enough force will knock you out. [/font]

While I agree that blunt force trauma to the head will almost always have the required result, what can you say about the most gentle of rubs dropping you to your knees.
I grew up fighting. I only took up martial arts, to begin with, so that I could learn how to kick. When I did American Kenpo, I was the guy the big guys in class would use to test their ability, I enjoyed the pain both recieving and giving it. I know that if I fight someone now and they beat me, then they really earned the win.
But when my Ryukyu Kempo instructor stopped me in my tracks with the softest of rubs along the jawline, I have to believe that this pressure point stuff is for real. Maybe all the explainations are wrong, but for now, that's all I have to go on.

--Dave :asian:

 

[wave]

Did I mention your name in that group? I think no......I made that statement in the same post as my reply to you.....that's all. Don't get so paranoid/

Since you aren't really bothering to read my posts carefully I feel no need to read yours and didn't read anything past the above statement.


maybe when you take the time to actually read my posts I will inturn read yours.......

By saying "you" guys as oppose to "those" guys, you are putting me in that group.

You still did not answer any of my questions.

You dismiss comments about your teacher with a sweeping statement. You say you have met some of Moneymakers Students. Arre these long term students or people who have been to a seminar ot two? There is a world of difference between somone claiming to be a student and actually being a student.

Give me one name privately if you like as I know all his students.

You continuously say that certain things are incorrect, but give no valid reason, just an opinion. Well...... you know what they say about opinions!

You are correct about Dillman, I have no time for him, ditto Clark. But seriously incorrect if you think Moneymaker can't do this stuff full speed and power.

Untill you begin to actually substantiate your opinions, with facts, then I will have little regard for what you are saying.

Myself and the people I train with have no trouble making this stuff work in full speed and power situations, doorwork etc, week in and week out. We have no need to try and convince people such as you as to the validity of what we do. I have tried to be constructive and appreciative of what I thought you were trying to achieve. But it seems that you just like to call BS on anything that you do not agree with, even if you have no first hand experience of it.

Best of luck in your endeavours.

Russell

 

[RRouuselot]

1) By saying "you" guys as oppose to "those" guys, you are putting me in that group.

2) You still did not answer any of my questions.

3) You dismiss comments about your teacher with a sweeping statement.


4) You continuously say that certain things are incorrect, but give no valid reason, just an opinion. Well...... you know what they say about opinions!

Russell

1)[font=&quot] [/font]Whatever….

2)[font=&quot] [/font]Ya know that comment is really starting to annoy me….I think I have answered all of your questions. I don’t think you are reading my posts. Which questions didn’t I answer?

3)[font=&quot] [/font]Ya…..and? What do you want me to argue with you about something you saw and I didn’t. Sounds kinda stupid.

4)[font=&quot] [/font]Geez you don’t read well at all do you…..look at my posts….I have given more than a few reasons.



Actually, I answered your post even though it was obvious you didn’t read mine I was feeling kind of charitable and answered your questions anyway…..when I guess I really shouldn’t have.

 

[Fbettincourt]

Mr. Rousselot,


I have been following this thread for a bit. I am new to this forum. Martial Arts has been, and always will be a hobby for me, I have a profession already so there is not need for a second.

My father, may he rest in peace, gave me some sound advice many years ago, "If you have nothing positive to say about anyone, then it is better to say nothing at all."

Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and I highly doubt if he meant to allow someone to blindside you.

I am sure that my comments will be met with some degree of hostility, that was not my intention.

May peace be unto you and your family!

FB

 

[SenseiBear]

Robert - this seems to be in response to this topic... From the kyusho.com web site:

Just to show that yes we train well beyond the standing KO. So many criticize on assumptions about what we do and how we train, really not having a clue. This is only the second of 10 levels of training criteria that we use, you decide is Kyusho viable in real situations?

For more information on classes or seminars email Evan Pantazi or call (978) 686 - 0025


http://www.kyusho.com/evanespana.wmv

 

[RRouuselot]

Mr. Rousselot,


I have been following this thread for a bit. I am new to this forum. Martial Arts has been, and always will be a hobby for me, I have a profession already so there is not need for a second.

My father, may he rest in peace, gave me some sound advice many years ago, "If you have nothing positive to say about anyone, then it is better to say nothing at all."

Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and I highly doubt if he meant to allow someone to blindside you.

I am sure that my comments will be met with some degree of hostility, that was not my intention.

1) May peace be unto you and your family!

FB

Well I would address you by your name but I see you don't have the guts to post it in your profile.
Either way, your comments are off the mark. They might apply in some places but not here.

1) This is funny. Why is it some people want to get in your face with a post that is trying to get a rise out of you and then say something like this? I guess that's the PC way to do things.....

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Robert - this seems to be in response to this topic... From the kyusho.com web site:

wow.....that video looks as bad as the rest of them. now its 4 guys running in with their arms at their sides.

btw.....could somebody please tell me about the restorative arts you guys are using.....i didnt know you could make it all better after knocking someone out with a lil pat on the ole back and a lil shoulder rub.

shawn

 

[Fbettincourt]

my name is Frank Bettincourt.

This had nothing to do with being polictically correct, just pointing something out that I had seen. Regardless, you have your own path. If you truly were a happy person then you would not have to constantly put others down.

Peace!

FB

 

[RRouuselot]

my name is Frank Bettincourt.

This had nothing to do with being polictically correct, just pointing something out that I had seen. Regardless, you have your own path. If you truly were a happy person then you would not have to constantly put others down.

Peace!

FB

First off, Don't even pretend to know me, what I think, feel or what mod I am in.

Second, I guess if everyone follwed your advice and kept their head in the sand we wouldn't have anything to worry about.
If people want to post crap mpegs on the internet they should expect commentary on it.
If you don't like this thread or the way I comment then you can "step off" anytime because as far as I can see nobody is twisting your arm to read this thread.
:321: