Power and economy of motion

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

the beauty of kenpo is in its continuity... offense within defense, action within reaction. the beginning of one technique cannot be separated from the end of the previous, making "point of origin" more of a path than a specific point. the use of minor moves to obscure, distract, and unsettle, and major moves to deliver power are balanced and build an economy of motion towards the condition as a whole, not just a single action or even a series of singular cause and effects.

...or, i may just be mistaken...

pete.

Smartass

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Pete:

Curious about "when a cigar is just a cigar"...

The multiplicity thing can be taken to extremes. Staying with Leopards Paw for a minute, assume you are surrounded by multiple opponents, some of which are shooting at you. It could be extrapolated that stepping back in the first move also stomps the forefoot of the opponent behind you, while evading a discharged round from a nearby gun that just fired at your head, and that the arcing of the backnuckle strike to the base of the occiput is also an inverted vertical hooking punch to the guy standing behind the guy who has got you, prior to being conveniently routed into the occiput blow after impact. 4 guys, 1 move.

Now, given that we're not in the Matrix, I'll venture this explanation as an unlikely exploration of the potentials of this technique.

How would you posit the similarities to, and differences from, each of the thread-raised issues (power & economy of motion) with rotational momentum, or related "strength" generating forces relative to the application of force in a blow over small distances?

Only partly being a smartass myself: I'm interested in the "conceptual" kenpo presentation of how to generate greater force and/or greater impact behind a blow, without building greater momentum.

Regards,

Dave

 

[tumpaiguy]

Most comcepts in martial arts can be described rather easily. It seems that some of you on here like to make things way too difficult. My teacher has a saying he uses quite often. "keep it simple stupid".

 

[Touch Of Death]

Pete:

Curious about "when a cigar is just a cigar"...

The multiplicity thing can be taken to extremes. Staying with Leopards Paw for a minute, assume you are surrounded by multiple opponents, some of which are shooting at you. It could be extrapolated that stepping back in the first move also stomps the forefoot of the opponent behind you, while evading a discharged round from a nearby gun that just fired at your head, and that the arcing of the backnuckle strike to the base of the occiput is also an inverted vertical hooking punch to the guy standing behind the guy who has got you, prior to being conveniently routed into the occiput blow after impact. 4 guys, 1 move.

Now, given that we're not in the Matrix, I'll venture this explanation as an unlikely exploration of the potentials of this technique.

How would you posit the similarities to, and differences from, each of the thread-raised issues (power & economy of motion) with rotational momentum, or related "strength" generating forces relative to the application of force in a blow over small distances?

Only partly being a smartass myself: I'm interested in the "conceptual" kenpo presentation of how to generate greater force and/or greater impact behind a blow, without building greater momentum.

Regards,

Dave

Posture, balance, relaxation, speed... and attention to points of reference.
Sean (www.iemat.com)

 

[pete]

increase mass or increase acceleration. that's science... but, then i'm not much of a scientist, so i'll just say to round off the edges 'cause corners will slow you down and to develop whole body unity to leverage power and maintain balance.

a cooper mini will give you economy of motion, but not if you are taking your wife and three kids cross country.

 

[Rainman]

Most comcepts in martial arts can be described rather easily. It seems that some of you on here like to make things way too difficult. My teacher has a saying he uses quite often. "keep it simple stupid".

Oh? So everyone should remain with the first thing they learn... If what is being discussed is complex for you should that not tell you there is much more than what you have?

I really have to laugh at people who say things like "keep it simple stupid". It is the commercial product gone unchecked for way too long. So what happens after 15 years in the art? Just keep doing and saying the same things over and over? Don't get me wrong, I didn't use concepts much for the first 2 years of AK, just did the "motion"- is a losing battle, concepts are what give an edge. The greater and deeper the understanding of concepts the more efficient one's technique is.

 

[tumpaiguy]

Oh? So everyone should remain with the first thing they learn... If what is being discussed is complex for you should that not tell you there is much more than what you have?

I really have to laugh at people who say things like "keep it simple stupid". It is the commercial product gone unchecked for way too long. So what happens after 15 years in the art? Just keep doing and saying the same things over and over? Don't get me wrong, I didn't use concepts much for the first 2 years of AK, just did the "motion"- is a losing battle, concepts are what give an edge. The greater and deeper the understanding of concepts the more efficient one's technique is.

I sure hope there is a lot more than what I have. If not I am wasting my time. My post is in relation to the 1 inch punch being a good example of power with economy of motion. I have enough knowledge to know that it is. Pretty simple!

 

[Touch Of Death]

I sure hope there is a lot more than what I have. If not I am wasting my time. My post is in relation to the 1 inch punch being a good example of power with economy of motion. I have enough knowledge to know that it is. Pretty simple!

Then I also hope you recognize that it is a specialized move and has very little to do with your over all ninja prowess.
Sean :asian:

 

[tumpaiguy]

What's so specialized about it? He uses a very common concept in generating power. Rotating the hips!

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

That being said, have you ever heard of Bruce Lee using it in sparring or combat? Perchance, to wonder why not?

D.

 

[Touch Of Death]

That being said, have you ever heard of Bruce Lee using it in sparring or combat? Perchance, to wonder why not?

D.

exactly!

 

[tumpaiguy]

No, but I use the concept in sparring and see it used quite often in our school. BTW, it may be a specialized move but, it is NOT a specialized concept.

 

[Kenpo_Chick]

Ok my 2 cents again (Yes yes it's me again shhh!)...

Our Instructor's teach us the three steps to power:

1/ Sight
The ability to mentally concentrate on the target

E.g. if you believe that your boyfriend/girlfriend is in front of your then you will not hit that target (I'm talking abotu current ones not ex's!!! That doesn't count!!) However if you believe that someone who is going to kill you in standing in front of you your mentality changes!! (Does it not!?)

Therefore Sight is the ability to mentally focus and visualise your opponents in front of you.

2/ Stance
E.g. If you're on your tip toes you cannot do a powerful punch can you!? (Try it for any smart asses out there who think they can!!) but however if you're in a deep stance yo achieve a greater deal of power.

3/ Breathe
Well this one is plain and simple. Hold your breathe, and do ten punches as hard as you can!! Did you do it!? Or fall down dead trying!? It's simple, you need to be able to breathe while you're training it cleans your mind and supplies oxygen to your muscles so that they do not tense up

Right so....

Together, all three techniques bring to your techniques alot of power. I can see where you're coming from with the changing the hips (which is covered in stance) but that is a small part of what power you can get (1/3 of it actually). It is the torque of the hips, or the torque of any move that creates power.

E.g. Hammer fist strike that starts beside your ear and you strike down across the opponents face.

Factors to worry about:
Stance - Making sure stacnce is deep
Breathe - Breathing and exhaling with the strike of the move
Sight - Mentally believing your opponent is in front of you
But there is also this fact...
Torque - the turn of the fist from the ear to the opponents face generates powers
Gravity - Yes Yes, and you thought it was something that held you down!! It helps with your power!! Althought not particularly a good example but the hammer generates gravity when you bring it down, therefore it creates more force which in return creates power :uhyeah:

So that's it from me but just a final comment...

To me (no disrespect to anyone or their style or instructors) Kenpo is not simple, there is alot to think about. But we train for years so that these factors we think about now are actually second nature to us. If we're attacked on the street and we have to defend ourselves we can deliver powerful blocks/attacks wihtout thinking.

Well that's it from me...

 

[Robbo]

[QUOTE Althought not particularly a good example but the hammer generates gravity when you bring it down[/QUOTE]

Actually this is a very good example as you are using marriage of gravity to perform the hammerfist which will increase power. For the small guys MOG is invaluable. For the big guys MOG is devastating.

Rob

 

[Touch Of Death]

Ok my 2 cents again (Yes yes it's me again shhh!)...

Our Instructor's teach us the three steps to power:

1/ Sight
The ability to mentally concentrate on the target

E.g. if you believe that your boyfriend/girlfriend is in front of your then you will not hit that target (I'm talking abotu current ones not ex's!!! That doesn't count!!) However if you believe that someone who is going to kill you in standing in front of you your mentality changes!! (Does it not!?)

Therefore Sight is the ability to mentally focus and visualise your opponents in front of you.

2/ Stance
E.g. If you're on your tip toes you cannot do a powerful punch can you!? (Try it for any smart asses out there who think they can!!) but however if you're in a deep stance yo achieve a greater deal of power.

3/ Breathe
Well this one is plain and simple. Hold your breathe, and do ten punches as hard as you can!! Did you do it!? Or fall down dead trying!? It's simple, you need to be able to breathe while you're training it cleans your mind and supplies oxygen to your muscles so that they do not tense up

Right so....

Together, all three techniques bring to your techniques alot of power. I can see where you're coming from with the changing the hips (which is covered in stance) but that is a small part of what power you can get (1/3 of it actually). It is the torque of the hips, or the torque of any move that creates power.

E.g. Hammer fist strike that starts beside your ear and you strike down across the opponents face.

Factors to worry about:
Stance - Making sure stacnce is deep
Breathe - Breathing and exhaling with the strike of the move
Sight - Mentally believing your opponent is in front of you
But there is also this fact...
Torque - the turn of the fist from the ear to the opponents face generates powers
Gravity - Yes Yes, and you thought it was something that held you down!! It helps with your power!! Althought not particularly a good example but the hammer generates gravity when you bring it down, therefore it creates more force which in return creates power :uhyeah:

So that's it from me but just a final comment...

To me (no disrespect to anyone or their style or instructors) Kenpo is not simple, there is alot to think about. But we train for years so that these factors we think about now are actually second nature to us. If we're attacked on the street and we have to defend ourselves we can deliver powerful blocks/attacks wihtout thinking.

Well that's it from me...

Deep stances are not needed for power. If you can excellerate your mass off the ball of your foot you have power. Deep stances will add a bracing angle for force against force, but launching your body into a retreating force is actualy hindered by a deep stance. :asian:
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

[QUOTE Althought not particularly a good example but the hammer generates gravity when you bring it down

Actually this is a very good example as you are using marriage of gravity to perform the hammerfist which will increase power. For the small guys MOG is invaluable. For the big guys MOG is devastating.

Rob[/QUOTE]I don't think anyone creates gravity, but I know what you are trying to say :asian: .
Sean

 

[Kenpo_Chick]

Deep stances are not needed for power. If you can excellerate your mass off the ball of your foot you have power. Deep stances will add a bracing angle for force against force, but launching your body into a retreating force is actualy hindered by a deep stance. :asian:
Sean

Ok I want to rephrase (Hey! It was late at night and it was a long post!) Deep stances was not the right wording but rather Steady stances. SOrry guys!!

 

[Rainman]

What's so specialized about it? He uses a very common concept in generating power. Rotating the hips!

Power comes from pushing off the floor. It can be done as an internal whip so it depends on how much power one wants to generate. You may also sink or rise using gravity and body momentum to add to the power. Then add directional harmony so as no to have parts of your body going different directions. If you are using chinese arts as an example they are not any simpler. They use something they call fah-jing for the one inch punch. Which is sorta like and internal wave of energy that comes from the floor. There is much more to the one inch punch if you so choose to maximize the movement.

 

[Kenpo_Chick]

Power comes from pushing off the floor. It can be done as an internal whip so it depends on how much power one wants to generate. You may also sink or rise using gravity and body momentum to add to the power. Then add directional harmony so as no to have parts of your body going different directions. If you are using chinese arts as an example they are not any simpler. They use something they call fah-jing for the one inch punch. Which is sorta like and internal wave of energy that comes from the floor. There is much more to the one inch punch if you so choose to maximize the movement.

EXACTLY WELL SAID!

 

[tumpaiguy]

I am beginning to understand why not many Kajukenbo people use this site.

Adios!