Poomse

[terryl965]

I was thinking about changing back to the palgae poomse from the taegueks what do you people think about changing back. My purpose is simple they seem to score higher at tournament than the others and they are more complex in my opinion.
Terry

 

[IcemanSK]

I was thinking about changing back to the palgae poomse from the taegueks what do you people think about changing back. My purpose is simple they seem to score higher at tournament than the others and they are more complex in my opinion.
Terry

I tend to like them better as a whole, myself. But aren't the Tae Gueks mandatory for 1st Dan under the Kukkiwon? You could add them, tho. I know that may be a lot of work. Just a thought.

 

[terryl965]

I tend to like them better as a whole, myself. But aren't the Tae Gueks mandatory for 1st Dan under the Kukkiwon? You could add them, tho. I know that may be a lot of work. Just a thought.

USAT still allows them to be done at this point.
Terry

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

I tend to like them better as a whole, myself. But aren't the Tae Gueks mandatory for 1st Dan under the Kukkiwon? You could add them, tho. I know that may be a lot of work. Just a thought.

I've been fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to learn all 8 of the Taegueks and all 8 of of the Palgwes, and I too prefer the Palgwe poomse. Maybe because the older more traditional Palgwes use deeper stances a little more than the newer Taegueks which tend to use more stand up stances.

 

[Tswolfman]

I also teach both it takes longer for students to advance but i think it helps to create a more rounded student

 

[Last Fearner]

My personal opinion....

I prefer the Taegeuk forms, mostly because of their simplicity which I believe is a better tool for creating quick, useful self defense reflexes. Complex forms are fine for Black Belts, and most of the people who question these kinds of things are Black Belts who want more out of their forms. Most color belts have enough challenge to learn one simple form per rank, and that's all they really need. I used to teach multiple forms because of attachment to past training, or my own preference for complex forms, but I find it does more harm than good.

My personal experience....

As a color belt, and beginner Instructor, I learned all of General Choi's Chang-Hon forms up to 6th Dan form when I was in the ATA in the 1970s (I was taught a few forms beyond my rank). In the '80s I learned all 8 of the Palgwe forms from a Jidokwan Korean Instructor just in time to switch to the Taegeuk. We taught both for a while but then dropped the Palgwe. I have had my fill of learning new forms, and switching back and forth. I find that any form done with excellence will score high at most tournaments (from my perspective as both a competitor and a judge).

My biggest concern is teaching forms that I hope will be in use five or ten years from now (so I won't have to switch again!), and that the practice of those forms addresses the issue of building better reflexes for self defense rather than if they seem challenging, complex, or entertaining enough. The same holds true for one-step sparring. More and more Black Belts want to make them complex and advanced, but for color belts, the simple, basic techniques works best in preparing reflex, and reality for self defense.

Just my thoughts on it!
CM D. J. Eisenhart

 

[Yeti]

Terry,
I find it odd that you take offense to the term "Taekwondo Player" because it downplays the 'art' of Taekwondo and favors the sport (See thread http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33367), but you are now considering changing your patterns primarily because they seem to score higher in tournaments. There seems to be a disconnect there.

 

[Gemini]

I would agree that because the Taegueks are the current patterns, that they should be taught as the primary. I'm sure the fact that they are more basic isn't a coincidence. Personally, I also prefer the Palgwe's and they're great to know, but Last Ferner hit it right on the head. As more complex form for a more complex student.

 

[terryl965]

Terry,
I find it odd that you take offense to the term "Taekwondo Player" because it downplays the 'art' of Taekwondo and favors the sport (See thread http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33367), but you are now considering changing your patterns primarily because they seem to score higher in tournaments. There seems to be a disconnect there.

Yeti in the other thread I'm talking personal preference and not for my students. It is insulting to me but that is me! I do teach both Olympic and Kukkiwon curriculum at my school, my student base loves the aspect of competing and I love the student dedication to the sport side of TKD, but my heart lies in the Art for myself and my family.

When you take a team to a tournament you would like to give them ever chance at placing, if you have notice we win almost at every event we go too, so the tae guek are doing fine but thepalgwe have been able to score higher when they are done properly, they are more complex and would give the student base a higher chance to win all the time.

Myself I know all the Chonji, Taeguek and palgwe poomse and so does my family but we only teach the taegueks at my school for the simplicity of those poomse, students can learn the realitivly quicker than the others.

Yeti I hope this answers your question and clears up your concerns.
Terry

 

[rmclain]

Myself I know all the Chonji, Taeguek and palgwe poomse and so does my family but we only teach the taegueks at my school for the simplicity of those poomse, students can learn the realitivly quicker than the others.

Yeti I hope this answers your question and clears up your concerns.
Terry

Off topic, but I'm curious if you still practice the Okinawan forms your father taught you.

R. McLain

 

[FearlessFreep]

*shrug* Decide why you teach poomse, what you are hoping your students get out of learning them and training them. What techniques or habits or skills are they learning as they learn them and practice them. What set of forms best accomplish the goals you have for why you are teaching forms? If the forms are a demonstration piece for tournaments and others.... If the forms are a summation of the art... If the forms are a catalog of self-defense techniques... In a sense, it doesn't matter what others think of what forms *should* be taught your students, because everyone is going to answer based on what they are trying to instill in thir students, it matters *why* you are teaching them forms and what you hope they gain from knowing them and doing them.

 

[terryl965]

Off topic, but I'm curious if you still practice the Okinawan forms your father taught you.

R. McLain

yes just me and my family after class, we leave them out of the classroom.
terry

 

[Yeti]

Yeti I hope this answers your question and clears up your concerns.
Terry

It does and it doesn’t – how ‘bout I leave it at that? I don’t think I necessarily agree with the rationale in your response, but at the end of the day, I am a student and not an instructor, let alone an instructor with my own school so I don’t think I have any right or knowledge base to draw from to allow me to comment further. Besides, it really doesn’t matter what I think anyway. If what you do makes you happy and your students are happy too, then you should keep on doing it!

FWIW, I too know the Chon-Ji forms as well as Taeguk, but have not been exposed to the Palgwe series except for a video that I've got.
Taekwon.

 

[terryl965]

It does and it doesn’t – how ‘bout I leave it at that? I don’t think I necessarily agree with the rationale in your response, but at the end of the day, I am a student and not an instructor, let alone an instructor with my own school so I don’t think I have any right or knowledge base to draw from to allow me to comment further. Besides, it really doesn’t matter what I think anyway. If what you do makes you happy and your students are happy too, then you should keep on doing it!

FWIW, I too know the Chon-Ji forms as well as Taeguk, but have not been exposed to the Palgwe series except for a video that I've got.
Taekwon.

Yeti I'm all about what people think at the end of a day just because you are an instructor mean do not have an intelligent view on the subject, you being a student is probaly the most qualify to answer because you not bound by anything or anyone. Please comment as you will if we dis-agree than that is fine too, I'm not always right ask my wife she says I'm always wrong.
Terry

 

[bluemtn]

I don't see why you shouldn't change the forms, Terry, and from experience they do score better.

 

[DuneViking]

Greetings,

I'd go with palgwe forms for tournys if the taegeuks are not working for you.

 

[AceHBK]

I dont remember any form much less the white belt form.
Are forms considered important these days in TKD?
How many forms are there? (Meaning are Taeguk & Palgwe it or are there more?)

 

[Miles]

We do the Taegueks and I have thought about teaching my students the Palgwe series (and when I feel really ambitious, the Chon-Ji tuls and relearning the Pyung-An hyung).

But, I always come back to the conclusion that it is better to do a few things exceptionally well than a lot of things satisfactorily. I believe all the poomsae teach the same lessons though not necessarily in the same order or with the same emphasis.

Good Luck with your decision Terry!

Miles

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

I dont remember any form much less the white belt form.
Are forms considered important these days in TKD?
How many forms are there? (Meaning are Taeguk & Palgwe it or are there more?)

Speaking from the perspective of a WTF affiliated Taekwondo practitioner, we have 8 Tae Guek, 8 Pal Gwe, and 9 Black belt forms, for a total of 25 forms. Poomse are a very important part of the curriculum at the dojang where I train. One must master, or at least commit to memory, each form before advancing to the next rank.

BTW, I believe that the ITF uses 24 poomse, but I'm not absolutely certain. If there are any ITF practitioners here on MartialTalk reading this thread please clarify this for us... :asian:

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Oh, and I almost forgot, we also have the white belt Kibon poomse too that also have to be learned. I can't forget that for the rookies...