O'Malley
2nd Black Belt
Let me jump on this bandwagon, I need friends.
Plz tell me about To Shin Do Home Study Course
- Thread starter KaranAuhi
- Start date
Let me jump on this bandwagon, I need friends.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Hello, friend.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Ok, pal.I'm not your friend, buddy!
Razznik
Blue Belt
To-Shin Do is a martial art founded by Black Belt Hall of Fame instructor Stephan Kayes Haes in 1997. It is a modernized version of ninjutsu and differs from the traditional form taught by Masaaki Hatsumi's Bujinkan organization. Instruction focuses on threats found in contemporary western society. In addition to hand-to-hand combat skills, students are exposed to methods for survival in hostile environments, security protection for dignitaries, how to instruct classes and run a school, classical Japanese weapons, meditation mind science, and health restoration yoga. The headquarters school (Hombu) is located in Dayton, Ohio, USA.
So, it is related to ninjutsu, but it is not ninjutsu.
So, it is related to ninjutsu, but it is not ninjutsu.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Number one, this is not an answer to any question in the thread.
Number two, this thread is from 2008, and the original poster is long gone.
Number three, the question is on the home study course, not where the hombu is, or even what the relationship is to the Bujinkan and other expressions of the same art.
Number four, "the traditional form taught by Hatsumi"?!? Ha!
Number five, who said anything about claims of being "ninjutsu"?
What experience and knowledge do you actually have in this area? I ask as you've resurrected a number of threads in this area, but have a fair bit wrong, and your only claimed training and knowledge is in TKD... nothing like the topics you're posting on in many cases.
Toshindo online
I believe Anshu (founder) of Toshindo is still around. His website can be found above.
I think like the Gracie University program, Toshindo is a home study course which is designed to be more like a seed, which will start a person's interest off to train in the style and develop a good practice,
which will hopefully result them in eventually hooking up with real life clubs and ultimately, for the people who follow them, starting their own clubs.
And yes, training at a real life quality club with a good quality instructor will be superior to home study training but there are some circumstances that people don't have access to the system of martial art they want to lear in the area that they live and a professional developed home study course developed and taught by one of the worlds leading instructors is a solution, which will at least give people an idea of what the art is about.
I think that Stephen K Hayes is a really interesting positive guy, who has loads of experience in all sorts of areas of the martial arts. He's intelligent, kind heart'ed and level headed. I believe he offers a great deal of insight into not only the techniques that he teaches within his Toshindo system but also teaches aspects of mind science, the psychology of the street battle field. life skills that many qualified instructors who may be technically proficient may lack.
I also think that he is a generally good influence, which is perhaps particularly needed
for people who want to train in anything to do with Ninjutsu,
As I would say that Ninjutsu does attract more than its fair share of people who are a little nuts.
I think that such an art really does need strong leaders who have their feet on the ground and morally strong.
Ninjutsu, haven derived from real life spy craft includes all sorts of information that could potentially make a person extremely dangerous to innocent people in society. So, when people learn about such things, some people need a strong moral influence to prevent them going off the rails and using their new found skills of manipulation for the wrong purposes.
I know all to well, as people who i grew up with (during the 80s) were obsessed with ninjutsu but due to living on an island, there was no clubs in this style of marital art to join.
These self styled self taught pseudo ninja unfortunately also developed an unhealthy interest in other dark occultism, and amalgamated their interests in black occult with much of the darker elements found in the history books on ninjutsu.
I believe this group of people who i grew up with have done irreversible damage to quiet a few people's lives, and have used some of the more manipulative aspects of mind science to spread slander (misinformation / disinformation) in the area that i live (a small Island), so that people believe the truth as lies, and lies as truth.
If only Stephen K Hayes lived in this island, he may have been able to have stopped these people from ruining innocent peoples lives.
I have no anger towards ninjutsu nor Toshindo. I think that Anshu Stephen K Hayes is a really good guy, and has a lot to offer people of todays world, as well as those who are interested in the history and traditions.
In the danger of sounding like a crap B movie from the 80s
"With great power, comes great responsibility!"
I believe Anshu (founder) of Toshindo is still around. His website can be found above.
I think like the Gracie University program, Toshindo is a home study course which is designed to be more like a seed, which will start a person's interest off to train in the style and develop a good practice,
which will hopefully result them in eventually hooking up with real life clubs and ultimately, for the people who follow them, starting their own clubs.
And yes, training at a real life quality club with a good quality instructor will be superior to home study training but there are some circumstances that people don't have access to the system of martial art they want to lear in the area that they live and a professional developed home study course developed and taught by one of the worlds leading instructors is a solution, which will at least give people an idea of what the art is about.
I think that Stephen K Hayes is a really interesting positive guy, who has loads of experience in all sorts of areas of the martial arts. He's intelligent, kind heart'ed and level headed. I believe he offers a great deal of insight into not only the techniques that he teaches within his Toshindo system but also teaches aspects of mind science, the psychology of the street battle field. life skills that many qualified instructors who may be technically proficient may lack.
I also think that he is a generally good influence, which is perhaps particularly needed
for people who want to train in anything to do with Ninjutsu,
As I would say that Ninjutsu does attract more than its fair share of people who are a little nuts.
I think that such an art really does need strong leaders who have their feet on the ground and morally strong.
Ninjutsu, haven derived from real life spy craft includes all sorts of information that could potentially make a person extremely dangerous to innocent people in society. So, when people learn about such things, some people need a strong moral influence to prevent them going off the rails and using their new found skills of manipulation for the wrong purposes.
I know all to well, as people who i grew up with (during the 80s) were obsessed with ninjutsu but due to living on an island, there was no clubs in this style of marital art to join.
These self styled self taught pseudo ninja unfortunately also developed an unhealthy interest in other dark occultism, and amalgamated their interests in black occult with much of the darker elements found in the history books on ninjutsu.
I believe this group of people who i grew up with have done irreversible damage to quiet a few people's lives, and have used some of the more manipulative aspects of mind science to spread slander (misinformation / disinformation) in the area that i live (a small Island), so that people believe the truth as lies, and lies as truth.
If only Stephen K Hayes lived in this island, he may have been able to have stopped these people from ruining innocent peoples lives.
I have no anger towards ninjutsu nor Toshindo. I think that Anshu Stephen K Hayes is a really good guy, and has a lot to offer people of todays world, as well as those who are interested in the history and traditions.
In the danger of sounding like a crap B movie from the 80s
"With great power, comes great responsibility!"
I don't know Stephen Hayes, in the last 30+ years I know of only one time he visited Hatsumi Sensei despite him giving the impression that he trained a lot under Soke
I give him some credit for marketing the art back in the day and inspiring many of us to start training, but I also blame him for branding the art in a disingenuous way and for making up a load of crap that's taken many years to remove from the zeitgeist
His movement is terrible
I give him some credit for marketing the art back in the day and inspiring many of us to start training, but I also blame him for branding the art in a disingenuous way and for making up a load of crap that's taken many years to remove from the zeitgeist
His movement is terrible
Fair enough. I do not know Stephen Hayes either.
What I have seen of him in terms of his personality and promoting Buddhism, I personally like.
I am not commenting on his technical instruction.
I have watched one of the Toshindo DVDS and found his approach to teaching quiet interesting.
What I found interesting is that he wasn't super rigid with regards as to his advice as to how to defend oneself against various attacks.
He appears to be more a Problem / Solution type of guy in his teaching leaving room for the individual to react more naturally using their natural instincts and way of moving rather than attempting to pull out a cookie cutter technique out the bag.
I found this interesting in itself, haven been brought up doing kenpo, which has a big system of self defence techniques which some practice with high level of rigidity and precision.
So. I guess I found his approach very open minded.
Personally i like what i have seen of him.
You have the right to your opinion and preference.
So. yep. fair enough.
What I have seen of him in terms of his personality and promoting Buddhism, I personally like.
I am not commenting on his technical instruction.
I have watched one of the Toshindo DVDS and found his approach to teaching quiet interesting.
What I found interesting is that he wasn't super rigid with regards as to his advice as to how to defend oneself against various attacks.
He appears to be more a Problem / Solution type of guy in his teaching leaving room for the individual to react more naturally using their natural instincts and way of moving rather than attempting to pull out a cookie cutter technique out the bag.
I found this interesting in itself, haven been brought up doing kenpo, which has a big system of self defence techniques which some practice with high level of rigidity and precision.
So. I guess I found his approach very open minded.
Personally i like what i have seen of him.
You have the right to your opinion and preference.
So. yep. fair enough.
I can't claim to know Steve terribly well, but I have attended a bunch of his seminars and classes (back while he was still part of the Bujinkan), had occasional encounters with him outside the dojo, and I used to be friends with people who did know him well. For what it's worth, here are my observations...
Positives
He is a very engaging teacher and an entertaining raconteur.
He explains concepts clearly.
He's a creative thinker.
He is very good at using physical techniques and principles as embodied metaphors for broader life lessons. This is the single biggest net benefit I took away from my time in the Bujinkan and I still apply this sort of thinking to my current training.
Negatives
He is definitely a used car salesman/politician type of personality who uses his charisma to help apply what might charitably be called "spin" to his accounts of his training and interactions with others. (Some of my friends who knew him better would probably be less charitable in their descriptions of his honesty.)
He greatly exaggerated (by implication if nothing else) the amount of training he actually had in the Bujinkan.
He added ideas of his own to the curriculum he was teaching, which would have been fine if he had acknowledged it, but he gave the impression for years that they were part of the official Bujinkan material.
For a long time he discouraged students from going to Japan to learn from the source first hand. When some of my friends started going over to Japan to train, they report that the shihans asked "What took you so long? We've been telling Steve to send students over here to learn for years."
He pushed a grandiose vision of ninja as enlightened mystical warriors and of his shidoshi title as meaning "teacher of the warrior ways of enlightenment." Then he seemed surprised when all sorts of flakes started showing up on his doorstep.
In common with many other X-kan instructors, he got creative with developing techniques without ever pressure testing what he was doing. A lot of the underlying principles of what he teaches are sound. The actual application - not so much.
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