Playing the Race Card

[Empty Hands]

I could see where ads on the radio and TV could lead people to call the lenders for a loan, but I know of no local company that did cold calling for loans.

Maybe not in your area, but I got hundreds of the damned things over the past few years. I still got them even as the market started to implode!

 

[AceHBK]

Maybe not in your area, but I got hundreds of the damned things over the past few years. I still got them even as the market started to implode!

Me too and I don't even have a mortgage...house been paid off for years.

 

[AceHBK]

I have problems with the race card being played. I was accused of being racist while in college and technically being involved as a student with the university. I refused to approve the constitution of the National Associate of Black Accountants. There was already an Accounting club but it was mostly white males, so I saw a need for this club/organization. The problem was that they wrote a constitution that stated one had to be a Black or Hispanic minority to be a member, and to be Black and or Female to be the president. I told them I could not approve this. I even re-wrote it for them in more generic terms including the preference for minorities. The group insisted the National level for the Club insisted the Constitution could not be modified. I stated I could not approve it and not be liable. The deadline went by and they complained to Minority Affairs Department. They showed to the Student Government meeting and I was there as well in the representative of Legal Affairs. I invited them to sit at the table with me as I knew many of them. When other showed up they were all upset by the level of tension in the room. And with me in the room as well. This had been going on for days until our meeting took place. The Minority Affairs group did not know I was the accused racist. I moved to ignore the agenda and to bring the issue up first. The President agreed and the others consented. They Minority Affairs group wanted to know which person was the racist who disapproved the Black Club on the basis of them being Black. I said, I did not approve them for other reasons. I then asked them if they wou0dl be upset if I stated a club would only accept Caucasians and only males could be the president? They were all upset and asked who approved such a charter/constitution. I said no one. I then read to them the proposed/insisted upon NABA charter. I stated I could not in good faith approve it as it was. If I replaced Black for White and Female for Male I got the above outrage condition. They then asked what could be done to fix the situation. I stated the woman who started all this had to apologize to me in writing. I would approve the constitution I wrote for them. I had to insist that the women who started all this could not be an officer but she could be a member. The Minority Affairs group agreed that I was being fair. It went down that that way with the exception that she never apologized. The fellow Black students who were upset with me before this did apologize to me for not knowing the whole story and reacting to it. I accepted their statements and told them it was a bad situation and that I would hope that in the future they ask me for the data.

The issue was that 6 month later when there was an actual issue of race at the university, no one took it seriously as they were all concerned over the last false alarm. In the end it was resolved, and in the manner it should have been, with the student involved being escorted off campus.

I think you were clearly right in your situation and glad you stuck up for yourself and for you felt was right. Many would have just caved in. When something like that happens it makes it harder for real racism problems to be taken seriously.

 

[Big Don]

The history of the Race Card is not a pretty one. OJ Simpson's attorneys played it in his murder trial, to great effect. Al Sharpton played it in the Tawana Brawley fraud. Not too long ago, Wesley Snipes played it in an attempt to move his tax evasion trial.
Too many people running about screaming racism where none exists makes actual cases of racism harder to discern. This is no different, really, than reporting fires or crimes where none exist.

 

[AceHBK]

The history of the Race Card is not a pretty one. OJ Simpson's attorneys played it in his murder trial, to great effect. Al Sharpton played it in the Tawana Brawley fraud. Not too long ago, Wesley Snipes played it in an attempt to move his tax evasion trial.
Too many people running about screaming racism where none exists makes actual cases of racism harder to discern. This is no different, really, than reporting fires or crimes where none exist.

I agree with you Big Don. Many people use it when they screw up and are looking for a scape goat instead of taking responsibility for their actions.

U have to admit somewhere that certain class of people were targeted and then look at that demographic to see what it is and then ask lenders why did they target them.

As I said before is this whole thing about the sub prime all and only about racism? Of course not. Does racism play some part in it? Yes
I think attention focused on better the educational system as well as getting important info to consumers who may not know how to get it would be better served. We can focus on who spilled the milk but our time would be focused more efficiently on how to prevent the milk from getting spilled again.

 

[Bigshadow]

There's a whole lot more to a person's income status than being lazy. Second jobs or working spouses aren't always practical -- or end up costing more than you make! Transport fees, child care costs, and other expenses can quickly eat up the "profits" of a part-time position.

In many parts of the US, the economy is in transition, and jobs are disappearing. In other places, jobs that traditionally paid quite well are being undercut by outsourcing or by illegal immigrant labor. For example, I know people in construction who refuse to use illegal immigrants and are always undercut by the companies who do; it's hard to compete when you're paying your legal workers $500 or more a day... and the next guy is paying his guys $100 under the table.

Many of the people being hit by ARMs or balloon payments now made plans based on poor financial education, or just poor planning. I know people who bought houses based on their pay, including over-time, and then found that the overtime dried up, for example. Or who simply assumed they could refinance or otherwise dodge the balloon payment...

You are spot on, on all points.

 

[ChadWarner]

:lfao::lfao: ^^ That right there put tears in my eyes!

Wooooooo!

Ok let me make this disclaimer *just b/c i am a black MA, it does not mean I speak for the whole black community. I just speak for myself.* (sorry Jim Brown)

Everyone has made some excellent points. I tend to agree with Kacey, Bob and others. I will say I disagree with Chad but that is a good thing b/c we all can't agree and despite how flawed I think your view is, I must consider that many people feel the same way as you so I should try and understand where you are coming from.

The whole issue of of the mortgage industry and sub prime issue is not all race motivated but race does have some part to play. Instead of placing blame with one party I think there more than enough to be placed equally to all parties.

Yes many of those affected were low income individuals. (I dont want to use the word "poor" b/c your not poor if you have a house ....people in 3rd world countries are poor...just my opinion) Many of these people many not be very educated and therefore don't always make the best decisions and people who they could go to for advice are may not be educated enough to give them the proper advice (as Kacey pointed out). So in turn it is a bad decision based on other bad decisions because they didn't know any better. Now with that, it is their fault for not trying to find credible help from knowledgeable people. We all know you should read before you sign and now the ramifications of what is going on. They have to take responsibility for what they put themselves in.

Now on the other hand lenders knew good and well what they were doing and were money motivated to get as people as they could to sign these new papers and get these adjustable mortgages. These people trusted them and in turn they got screwed. Im sure some thought they were doing good and didn't know the market would turn the way it did while others flat out didn't care. At some point you hope people would let morals kick in and say to themselves "i know this wouldn't be a good deal for Mr. & Mrs. Jackson" and not talk someone into something but of course when money is involved that doesn't always happen.

Kacey makes a lot of very good points about the social surroundings of the people that got screwed over. Not saying they are free from blame but you can see how a lot of this went down. I don't think the race card should be used b/c there where many races that were affected by this so thereofre race really can't be put into. I hate it when race gets into it b/c then it makes it seem like all black people are dumb, can';t read, etc. and that isn't the case. This whole issue more than anything shows how IMPORTANT education is. So much comes into play with this in education that it isn't even funny.

JKS...you are very correct on the ignorance part. Many people are ignorant and are too full of pride and what not to think they don't need to listen to others and make their own decision and don't think about the consequences. Now that something has gone wrong they want to go run and complain and everything else and im sorry they blame no one but them self. I feel more sorry for the older adult who thinks they are doing the right thing and got screwed than the young person who is too lazy to do some research.

I am okay with that. My views are not going to win me a popularity contest, on the other hand my gf is black and her family worked themselves through college from very humble beginnings. The mother divoreced the father, raised 2 kids and put herself through college all the way to achieve her masters degree. I have heard many anecdotes about when there was not enough food mom went hungry. So those who struggle do get rewarded. They are all college educated now and doing very well for themselves. After seeing and hearing about their lives I just can't see where many people can complain. Life is hard and I make no qualms about it- change is even more difficult and I must give much respect to those who strive and struggle for a better place in society.

Mom- she does what needs to be done and it has carried over to her children. Her new (well 13 years now) man is nigerian and he owns and operates a limo service which employs his son. They work 14 hours a day. Here is a man that has his masters in aero engineering, had his hand loped off while working his way through college yet struggled to make his life better. Whenever I am feeling lazy I just look at their lives and realize I have nothing to complain about. They are a great inspiration. I was the one my gf brought home for dinner... A little scary but they greated me with open arms and basically asked when I was going back to finish my degree. I told them I work a lot... "only 58 hours?" "boy you lazy" all good natured poking but I got the message.

 

[MJS]

This is disgusting.
That many people were not smart enough to take a fixed rate mortgage and instead gambled and lost with Adjustable Rate Mortgages is sad, but, to claim it is racist is just stupid.
I am really getting sick of hearing of the "Sub Prime Crisis" Yes, some people will lose their homes, however, that is their fault for not reading the fine print. A house is the single biggest investment most people make and to not ensure you fully understand what you are agreeing to in signing a mortgage is foolish to the point of abject stupidity. This has nothing, repeat, NOTHING to do with race, or dishonesty as so many are claiming.
What this is, is an example of why you should NEVER buy anything you cannot afford, nor should you ever sign any document without reading and having a full understanding of what every word means.
That some people allegedly left furniture and other possessions behind marks them as stupid, it says nothing about lenders or anyone else.
That some people have to blame everything on racism is pathetic. I'm pretty sure people of every race were stupid enough to take the hit from th e "sub prime crisis", to claim your race was targeted is disgusting.

IMHO, people are way too quick to pass the blame onto someone else, rather than taking it and admitting that they messed up. My wife and I were first time homebuyers when we bought our condo. Sure, there are many people out there that'll suggest something, fully knowing that its not the best option for you. However, we did our homework and made sure that we got ourselves into the proper mortgage.

Race has nothing to do with this. It comes down to simple common sense. Additionally, don't take on more than you can handle. People tend to forget that when they're going thru the approval process, the payments, or what you've been approved for, does not take into consideration your lifestyle. You want to enjoy life, not be a prisoner in your own home because you can't afford to do anything fun, because all your cash is going towards the mortgage.

 

[Big Don]

IMHO, people are way too quick to pass the blame onto someone else, rather than taking it and admitting that they messed up. My wife and I were first time homebuyers when we bought our condo. Sure, there are many people out there that'll suggest something, fully knowing that its not the best option for you. However, we did our homework and made sure that we got ourselves into the proper mortgage.

Race has nothing to do with this. It comes down to simple common sense. Additionally, don't take on more than you can handle. People tend to forget that when they're going thru the approval process, the payments, or what you've been approved for, does not take into consideration your lifestyle. You want to enjoy life, not be a prisoner in your own home because you can't afford to do anything fun, because all your cash is going towards the mortgage.

It can't be said too often: Common Sense is not common at all

 

[Rich Parsons]

Maybe not in your area, but I got hundreds of the damned things over the past few years. I still got them even as the market started to implode!

Thanks for the correction.

 

[shesulsa]

Race has nothing to do with this. It comes down to simple common sense. Additionally, don't take on more than you can handle. People tend to forget that when they're going thru the approval process, the payments, or what you've been approved for, does not take into consideration your lifestyle. You want to enjoy life, not be a prisoner in your own home because you can't afford to do anything fun, because all your cash is going towards the mortgage.

I think creative financing has also been falsely marketed as a real solution to people who thought they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford a home. The end result is ... they thought right in the first place. EVERYONE is buying into this - people who make a decent living but have little to no savings regardless of color, gender or creed. It's the main reason the real estate market is plummeting.

I think ChadWarner has worked things out for himself and met some great people who managed to make things work out for them ... I've met a few too. But I've met some who couldn't and it was not for lack of work, lack of jobs, lack of effort.

Have a nice day.

 

[crushing]

Race has nothing to do with this. It comes down to simple common sense. Additionally, don't take on more than you can handle. People tend to forget that when they're going thru the approval process, the payments, or what you've been approved for, does not take into consideration your lifestyle. You want to enjoy life, not be a prisoner in your own home because you can't afford to do anything fun, because all your cash is going towards the mortgage.

HELOCs are for having fun, right? If you use your home as a piggy bank is there anything you can't do or buy? Get yourself a well deserved vacation, HDTV, newcar, X-box 360s. . ..

The consideration of a lifestyle may show itself in the credit report.