Plateaus

[tshadowchaser]

I don’t set goals for my students. If they have any fine I hope I can help them obtain them. However some of those goals may be physical harm to someone else. If this is the case and I know it I try to let them know that by the time they obtain the level to do such harm, I hope they realize that violence is not always the way.
I do try to push the student to new limits of physical endurance. If they can do 20 push ups I have them do 30 and tell them if they miss one do the next. If they miss 2 do the 3rd. Just never give up. I think that having them learn to keep trying will carry over into other aspects of their lives.

 

[TigerWoman]

For me, I wish it was so simple as a problem as hitting a plateau. That can be worked out, for instance like doing more pushups at home to get the force necessary for a knife through concrete. Or running at three boards at an angle because you can't twist your knee completely around for the right angle of the hip. But after more than a year at this "plateau" of mine of not being able to do a jumpback kick-2/jump spin heel-1, it feels more like an immovable rock in the way. Besides other physical problems, at some point, the body does, I believe, have limits, especially for a nearly 55year old. Just ranting -- Sorry, the topic just got me going. But for most plateaus, it just takes a new angle of working at it, discovering what you lack to overcome the problem. Its a matter of just keeping at it.Thats part of the journey - discovering yourself. TW

 

[Rob Broad]

For me, I wish it was so simple as a problem as hitting a plateau. That can be worked out, for instance like doing more pushups at home to get the force necessary for a knife through concrete. Or running at three boards at an angle because you can't twist your knee completely around for the right angle of the hip. But after more than a year at this "plateau" of mine of not being able to do a jumpback kick-2/jump spin heel-1, it feels more like an immovable rock in the way. Besides other physical problems, at some point, the body does, I believe, have limits, especially for a nearly 55year old. Just ranting -- Sorry, the topic just got me going. But for most plateaus, it just takes a new angle of working at it, discovering what you lack to overcome the problem. Its a matter of just keeping at it.Thats part of the journey - discovering yourself. TW

Your problem isn't so much a plateau it is having a putz for an instructor who is trying to play god.

 

[Trent]

That was an excellent article from the Shen Chuan site. Thanks for sharing it.

The common thread I noticed in the article, and life in general, is that plateaus are typically a place where a decision must be made to continue, and the person is putting that decision off, attempting to maintain a holding pattern. In every instance where the "plateau effect" is observed it's due to the fact that the decision requires that the person learn something that is difficult to perform for whatever reason. They may be physically unable to perform the next level, which is fine. Most often, they simply don't wish to commit themselves to learning or performing the material because it's uncomfortable; in other words, it's not that they can't do it, but they won't do it. Therefore, the plateau has been reached. Now, the person can continue due perform at the level they are comfortable and stay at the same level, or plateau, or start doing the hard work and start climbing, slowly, but always climbing. Many of them know this at a subconscious level and can't accept staying in a holding pattern as what's the point? But the alternative, learning something that, for whatever reason, intimidates them to confront is unacceptable, so they quit.

As an instructor, I find it my job to show them that they can accomplish much more than they thought, and if I can do it, they can do it. The climb can be made, but it will require some adjustments.

However, people can only be assisted if they allow you to do so.

 

[TigerWoman]

As an instructor, I find it my job to show them that they can accomplish much more than they thought, and if I can do it, they can do it. The climb can be made, but it will require some adjustments.

However, people can only be assisted if they allow you to do so.

Not always the case, in my opinion. I have always thought that even though the next goal seems to be hard, I would work it to death at different angles, exercising more, practicing, tweeking this and that until it was overcome. I, have always been an overachiever though, doing more than needed. But that's the only way I know--work hard as you can until its done. But physical condition of the body, aging, does interfere with that. My instructor has that mentality too, if I can do it at 43 (him), you can do it. I'm stuck now and its not for the not trying. TW

 

[Trent]

Not always the case, in my opinion. I have always thought that even though the next goal seems to be hard, I would work it to death at different angles, exercising more, practicing, tweeking this and that until it was overcome. I, have always been an overachiever though, doing more than needed. But that's the only way I know--work hard as you can until its done. But physical condition of the body, aging, does interfere with that. My instructor has that mentality too, if I can do it at 43 (him), you can do it. I'm stuck now and its not for the not trying. TW

Yes, as stated previouisly in my post above before the quoted phrase. In some instances physical limitations do keep you at certain points. Most of the time, when observed, that is not the case. The attempt at different approaches is the mark of someone who does not wish to accept their limitations-- a good thing in training as long as no real chance of debilitating injury is imminent.

What was described in other posts, and what is commonly witnessed, were the obvious signs of people who simply did not wish to face the realities of training, and so, there they are. In fact, your particular description further illustrates my point. Whether physical or mental, the reason for a plateau is the inability to proceed, real or imagined. No judgment, as if you are comfortable where you are and accept it, or even better, learn how to adjust to it, excellent. There is only a problem when someone wishes to be one of the "elite," and doesn't wish to face the realities of their inabilities, self-inflicted or otherwise.

 

[TigerWoman]

There is only a problem when someone wishes to be one of the "elite," and doesn't wish to face the realities of their inabilities, self-inflicted or otherwise.

Its not so much as wanting a status which isn't there anyway (a 2nd dan is not much more than 1st-still learning) as finishing what I know is possible but denied. I have had an uphill battle with my instructor due to personal reasons when I was "in to it" training for 2nd dan. His obvious lack of instruction, help, and harmful exercise led me go it alone and train and protect myself. I fully realize that I, at 54, am a marginal black belt. I wish I had started as a teen but am glad that I have done it at all. What would YOU do if someone said you couldn't do something that you COULD and only takes a hair breadth more...but seems to be always out of reach to accomplish.? It is human nature, to not stay at that plateau, to work around it to the best of their ability, to challenge themselves, even if it is in a different way. Its the human spirit, to never give up. TW

 

[Trent]

Wanting to be the best at what you do is not a status issue for most I know who are at that level. It's a personal issue of self-actualization, or self-realization.

Your particular situation is very unfortunate and should never have occurred. It is not typical of plateau phenomenon.

Also, your spirit is to be commended, and I truly enjoy seeing it expressed here. However, it is not in everyone to have it unfortunately. Which is why most quit when it begins to become difficult in ordinary circumstances.

 

[psi_radar]

I suppose I have a different take on plateaus than what I've read so far. Sometimes, given a challenge, I will charge it head on and attack it until I succeed.

On the other hand, if I reach a point of stagnation, I like to take a break to get perspective and come back reinvigorated rather than beating the problem to death. Much like I'm doing now; taking a quick break from work to converse with you guys. When I go back to work, I might have a different perspective on the project I was working on.

 

[Rob Broad]

Can plateaus be a learning experience?

 

[Trent]

Can plateaus be a learning experience?

They certainly are. Part of anyone's martial path I would imagine. Plateaus force you to re-evaluate your art, your instructor and, most of all, yourself.