Pigua vs. WC

[Martial D]

Comments like this makes me want to record me doing my forms, then showing the application in free sparring, and then show exactly what part of the form contains the technique. The only way you'll get creamed is if you try a technique that you don't actually try to use in sparring.

Well sure, if the other guy is terrible, or going very light. You just can't use movement like that and expect to beat anyone with functional movement, it just doesn't happen, and even if that could be overcome, those swinging straight arm strikes lack any real power compared to actual punches.(talking about the first guy here)

You have to realize that what you can do in sparring is entirely dependent on how hard the other guy is coming at you.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You have to realize that what you can do in sparring is entirely dependent on how hard the other guy is coming at you.

The harder that your opponent comes in, the easier that you may knock him down.

When you swing your arm, if your opponent comes in

- slow, you may hit on the side of his head.
- fast, you may hit on the back of his head.

To hit on the back of your opponent's head is a very effective finish move. If you try to reach to the back of your opponent's head is difficult. But if your opponent comes in hard and fast, it may be easier. Believe it or not, one time I used this move to knock my opponent's body from vertically to horizontally before his body dropped down to the ground.

IMO, the best counter to a committed straight punch:

- Spin your body out of your opponent's attacking path.
- Swing your arm and hit on the back of his head (if he comes in hard).

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well sure, if the other guy is terrible, or going very light. You just can't use movement like that and expect to beat anyone with functional movement, it just doesn't happen, and even if that could be overcome, those swinging straight arm strikes lack any real power compared to actual punches.(talking about the first guy here)

I can only defend Jow Ga on this one. I've already shown what's possible with similar long punches. I threw 3 punches and a kick in a little less than 2 seconds. According to the stopwatch on my phone and one of my videos playing at normal speed it took 1.82 seconds. I was able to throw 2 big wheel punches, 1 jab, and a kick to the ribs in 1.82 seconds. Based on what I'm able to do in Jow Ga, there's nothing that would make me thing that some of those Pigua strikes couldn't generate some powerful strikes.

Keep in mind I'm just basing it on the mechanics that I see from Pigua. I think I have a good feel for which ones are strikes and which ones are something else. For example, Looking at the OP's Pigua video. the first big wheel movement that he does at 0:08 isn't a punch. It's a technique that looks similar to one that is used to escape a grappling hold. So he's not actually punching but breaking a hold.

The one where he crouches and does an uppercut. I'm willing say that's an upper cut. I do a similar one I do. When I was teaching we actually prohibited that technique because it was too effective and students were getting caught with it. The double arms out like a bird at 0:27 is just a back fist, but it's a crashing backfist which is different than the quick one that's like a jab. The backfist he is doing is a heavy hand back fist.

The big arm movement near the end at 1:15 looks like deflections. In CMA there's a lot of stuff that looks like one thing, but in reality it's actually something else. For example, someone may look like they are going to go for your legs, but in reality they are just baiting you for a punch. The problem is that you fall for the bait and try to protect your legs which causes you to be open for the punch. This is why heavy sparring with some of these techniques are very dangerous.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You have to realize that what you can do in sparring is entirely dependent on how hard the other guy is coming at you.

for me personally the only difference is light sparring is slower and lighter in force. Fighting is the same stuff I do in sparring but faster and harder.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When you swing your arm, if your opponent comes in

- slow, you may hit on the side of his head.
- fast, you may hit on the back of his head.

Very true. An intended hook to the side of the face can turn into a punch to the back of the head simply because your opponent advanced faster than expected. Or your opponent may turn his or her head away from the hook at the last moment, exposing the back of the head.

 

[Mitlov]

Well they are following two different training theories, and simply splitting the difference does not work. You either follow the theory or you find something else to do.

Each system is build upon a theory and designed to work well with that theory in mind. If you practice in a way that does not utilize the theory, then the system as a whole tends to break down.

This is why it often does not work well to mix different systems. It can work, but the person doing the mixing must understand the theories underneath each system very well, in order to mix them in a way that makes sense and remains effective.

Some things simply ought to not be mixed.

I'm not saying to grab 50% of each extreme and call it a day. I'm saying I personally prefer philosophies of body mechanics and movement that fall between the two extremes of these two particular theories. There are indeed unified theories of body mechanics between those two extremes, like Shotokan karate and boxing.

 

[skribs]

Comments like this makes me want to record me doing my forms, then showing the application in free sparring, and then show exactly what part of the form contains the technique. The only way you'll get creamed is if you try a technique that you don't actually try to use in sparring.

Do it!