Picking up a new art in a new school?

[skribs]

I trained Taekwondo as a kid, and came to a new school to also train Taekwondo. While at that new school, I also decided to learn Hapkido. In both of these cases, I started with something I already knew - either the teacher or the art.

As I look at my future, I'm considering taking something else to expand my horizons. Maybe boxing or BJJ. But in order to do one of these, I'd need to move outside of my school.

I'm curious what the experience has been for experienced martial artists moving outside their "realm" to go to a new school and learn a new art? At this point in time, I've got 9 years experience in Taekwondo and 2 years in Hapkido. So in terms of martial arts, I'm a lot different than someone who has never taken any art before.

But in terms of boxing, I know some of the punches better than someone off the street, but I don't train their footwork or style at all. In terms of BJJ, I've got even less experience, even if some of my hapkido principles will carry over.

How is it for you who have a lot of experience going to a new art? Do you find your experience in your old art helps? Do you find that it's hard to humble yourself and start fresh? Is there a frustration that you're not progressing as fast as you'd thought, or are you surprised that you go faster than you expected?

 

[Hanzou]

Depends on what you move over to. When I went from TKD to Shotokan, my TKD background gave me a pretty solid foundation and I was able to test to Green belt after only being in Shotokan for a few months. When I left Shotokan and briefly tried Judo, it was like I was on a completely different planet. Judo completely pierced my bubble and completely changed how I viewed martial arts forever. The only thing that transferred over from karate was some of the hip twisting I had learned from years of practice.

When I finally landed in Bjj, the main thing I brought over from Judo was a very effective Kesa-gatame from side control that a lot of my Bjj peers weren't used to. Many of them go from Side control directly to the mount, and they have a lot of defenses against that transition, but almost none of them were used to someone transitioning from Side control to Kesa. So yeah, that was a good time (until everyone caught on to what I was doing and started wrecking me hard core).

 

[ballen0351]

Like Hanzou said it would depend on what you choose to go into but Boxing and BJJ are different enough from TKD and Hapkido that you're a beginner in both so as long as you go in with that mindset you will be fine. I've always dabbled in other styles for years while still training in my main style of Goju. I just like trying new things BJJ, Judo, Aikido, Hapkido all while keeping up my Goju training. I always start the new style with the beginner's mindset. If something is similar then great if not even better.

Just keep an open mind and you will be fine. You walk into an old-school boxing or BJJ gym telling them how "We do it this way in my other school" your going to have a tough time.

 

[ballen0351]

I don't know how often @Steve comes around anymore as I've been gone for a while and just returned myself but he's up near you I believe and could give you some info on the BJJ scene maybe help you find a good place to try out.

 

[dvcochran]

I trained Taekwondo as a kid, and came to a new school to also train Taekwondo. While at that new school, I also decided to learn Hapkido. In both of these cases, I started with something I already knew - either the teacher or the art.

As I look at my future, I'm considering taking something else to expand my horizons. Maybe boxing or BJJ. But in order to do one of these, I'd need to move outside of my school.

I'm curious what the experience has been for experienced martial artists moving outside their "realm" to go to a new school and learn a new art? At this point in time, I've got 9 years experience in Taekwondo and 2 years in Hapkido. So in terms of martial arts, I'm a lot different than someone who has never taken any art before.

But in terms of boxing, I know some of the punches better than someone off the street, but I don't train their footwork or style at all. In terms of BJJ, I've got even less experience, even if some of my hapkido principles will carry over.

How is it for you who have a lot of experience going to a new art? Do you find your experience in your old art helps? Do you find that it's hard to humble yourself and start fresh? Is there a frustration that you're not progressing as fast as you'd thought, or are you surprised that you go faster than you expected?

@ballen0351 said it well. Don't go into your new style with expectations that your previous style(s) will make it easier. You have already taken some of the shine off the new style. If it works out that way, all the better.
For me the contrast in TKD and Kali are so extreme there was very little overlap. I think it made it harder training both styles at the same time though. I have been to a lot of different schools over the years. It really opens the mind as to the differences, even within the same style. Take your time and visit all the schools you can. I hope you have more choices in your area than we do.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My best example of this was my foray into FMA. I found a meetup for martial arts. It turned out to be an ad for a hybrid style (FMA with small-circle JJ bolted on). I took what turned out to be private lessons for some months (less than a year, I think). My experience was helpful - I understood how to generate power with the sticks, and could usually find some analog for other movements- but I was also impatient. The instructor wanted me to stick to exaggerated beginner movements, even when I could generate the power without them. I seem so much time learning NOT to do that, it drove me nuts.

 

[Bruce7]

I trained Taekwondo as a kid, and came to a new school to also train Taekwondo. While at that new school, I also decided to learn Hapkido. In both of these cases, I started with something I already knew - either the teacher or the art.

As I look at my future, I'm considering taking something else to expand my horizons. Maybe boxing or BJJ. But in order to do one of these, I'd need to move outside of my school.

I'm curious what the experience has been for experienced martial artists moving outside their "realm" to go to a new school and learn a new art? At this point in time, I've got 9 years experience in Taekwondo and 2 years in Hapkido. So in terms of martial arts, I'm a lot different than someone who has never taken any art before.

But in terms of boxing, I know some of the punches better than someone off the street, but I don't train their footwork or style at all. In terms of BJJ, I've got even less experience, even if some of my hapkido principles will carry over.

How is it for you who have a lot of experience going to a new art? Do you find your experience in your old art helps? Do you find that it's hard to humble yourself and start fresh? Is there a frustration that you're not progressing as fast as you'd thought, or are you surprised that you go faster than you expected?

For me learning a new art was the best thing that ever happen to me as far as being a Martial Artists.
I think finding the teacher is more important than the art. I went from Taekwondo to Kung Fu long fist. My Kung Fu teacher had amazing skills and was very tough on you. Sitting in a horse stance for half an hour humming, hitting me in the back of knees with a short bo if I straight up. Everything was different yet the same. Kung Fu stances were so different, at first I thought this is just stupid, then when I started using them the rules of balance were the same and their unseen advantages came to life in use.
The belt thing was no big deal because, he wore a black belt and we all wore a white belt. He like to spar with me, I think because I spar different from the other students, he like to make me look stupid, and I know he enjoyed my pain. He would slip all my punches and kicks. So I would learn the value of slipping kicks, after slipping my kick he would sweep my back leg and both of my feet would fly in the air. He was also a mind reader, He knew what you were going to do before you did. I learn from the pain of my mistakes to read other fighters.
You see he spoke zero English, and only taught by example or touch. His touch was not gentle.

 

[Yokozuna514]

I trained Taekwondo as a kid, and came to a new school to also train Taekwondo. While at that new school, I also decided to learn Hapkido. In both of these cases, I started with something I already knew - either the teacher or the art.

As I look at my future, I'm considering taking something else to expand my horizons. Maybe boxing or BJJ. But in order to do one of these, I'd need to move outside of my school.

I'm curious what the experience has been for experienced martial artists moving outside their "realm" to go to a new school and learn a new art? At this point in time, I've got 9 years experience in Taekwondo and 2 years in Hapkido. So in terms of martial arts, I'm a lot different than someone who has never taken any art before.

But in terms of boxing, I know some of the punches better than someone off the street, but I don't train their footwork or style at all. In terms of BJJ, I've got even less experience, even if some of my hapkido principles will carry over.

How is it for you who have a lot of experience going to a new art? Do you find your experience in your old art helps? Do you find that it's hard to humble yourself and start fresh? Is there a frustration that you're not progressing as fast as you'd thought, or are you surprised that you go faster than you expected?

A lot of good questions and from my perspective I think the questions are applicable whether you have taken MA previously or not. If you are athletic and have played sports all your life, your previous experiences will most likely assist in learning a new MA because you will have already had instruction in the fundamentals of balance and coordination. The movements may be different but a defensive stance in most sports requires that same posture, width of feet and weight distribution to the balls of the feet that is used in most MA.

The instructor should be able to see that you have had prior training and hopefully they will find a way for you to use that prior training in your new MA but there are also some instructors that discourage the use of prior information for various reasons. If they feel that the prior information is incorrect in its basic principles than you may need to relearn something you were taught previously (eg: footwork). If you came from a McDojo than your technique may be quite questionable so the instructor may feel that the prior knowledge is not helpful to your current training.

At the end of the day, it's important to try the new MA and discuss your background with your instructor if it is important to you that they consider this prior training. You will probably learn a lot from the class and the conversation. Hopefully you will learn if this is a good place for you to spend your time, energy and money. In my case, I didn't tell anyone of my previous experiences because I truly believe in 'emptying my cup' when I start something new. It wasn't something I was trying to hide but I knew it would come out when I was on the floor anyways so I didn't see the point in telling him about it.

 

[skribs]

A lot of good questions and from my perspective I think the questions are applicable whether you have taken MA previously or not. If you are athletic and have played sports all your life, your previous experiences will most likely assist in learning a new MA because you will have already had instruction in the fundamentals of balance and coordination. The movements may be different but a defensive stance in most sports requires that same posture, width of feet and weight distribution to the balls of the feet that is used in most MA.

The instructor should be able to see that you have had prior training and hopefully they will find a way for you to use that prior training in your new MA but there are also some instructors that discourage the use of prior information for various reasons. If they feel that the prior information is incorrect in its basic principles than you may need to relearn something you were taught previously (eg: footwork). If you came from a McDojo than your technique may be quite questionable so the instructor may feel that the prior knowledge is not helpful to your current training.

At the end of the day, it's important to try the new MA and discuss your background with your instructor if it is important to you that they consider this prior training. You will probably learn a lot from the class and the conversation. Hopefully you will learn if this is a good place for you to spend your time, energy and money. In my case, I didn't tell anyone of my previous experiences because I truly believe in 'emptying my cup' when I start something new. It wasn't something I was trying to hide but I knew it would come out when I was on the floor anyways so I didn't see the point in telling him about it.

There are some principles that are completely different between arts. For example, the footwork in boxing is completely different than that in Taekwondo. So while my Taekwondo footwork isn't wrong, it would be in a boxing gym. After learning to do it the boxing way, I could then decide whether to stick with what I know from TKD, change to what I learned in boxing, or pick and choose when to use each style of footwork.

Similarly, if I'm taking a grappling art, there's not going to be many opportunities to use my kicks (for the same reason we don't grapple or punch much in Taekwondo). That integration isn't something that should be there as a beginner in the art. At that point I should just be learning that art's fundamentals. Once I have a good enough grasp on those, I can incorporate them.

 

[Bruce7]

There are some principles that are completely different between arts. For example, the footwork in boxing is completely different than that in Taekwondo. So while my Taekwondo footwork isn't wrong, it would be in a boxing gym. After learning to do it the boxing way, I could then decide whether to stick with what I know from TKD, change to what I learned in boxing, or pick and choose when to use each style of footwork.

Similarly, if I'm taking a grappling art, there's not going to be many opportunities to use my kicks (for the same reason we don't grapple or punch much in Taekwondo). That integration isn't something that should be there as a beginner in the art. At that point I should just be learning that art's fundamentals. Once I have a good enough grasp on those, I can incorporate them.

I disagree, you have to go all in for at least 2 or 3 years, before thinking about which technique is better and how they will fit together. Other wise you will think your first art is right about everything.

 

[skribs]

I disagree, you have to go all in for at least 2 or 3 years, before thinking about which technique is better and how they will fit together. Other wise you will think your first art is right about everything.

How is what you said incongruous with what I said?

 

[Yokozuna514]

There are some principles that are completely different between arts. For example, the footwork in boxing is completely different than that in Taekwondo. So while my Taekwondo footwork isn't wrong, it would be in a boxing gym. After learning to do it the boxing way, I could then decide whether to stick with what I know from TKD, change to what I learned in boxing, or pick and choose when to use each style of footwork.

Similarly, if I'm taking a grappling art, there's not going to be many opportunities to use my kicks (for the same reason we don't grapple or punch much in Taekwondo). That integration isn't something that should be there as a beginner in the art. At that point I should just be learning that art's fundamentals. Once I have a good enough grasp on those, I can incorporate them.

Footwork is the obvious difference between styles and it's different because the 'games' are different. The difference in scoring typically dictates the need to alter striking distance, speed and tactics so it should alter the basics of how to manage the fighting space.

True grappling arts do not present many opportunities for punching and kicking but they also require balance and coordination that may have been learned from a previous art. I think it will come down to the instructor and student to see how it could be applicable if at all possible given that the nature of both games are so different. Will be interesting to follow your journey here.

 

[skribs]

Footwork is the obvious difference between styles and it's different because the 'games' are different. The difference in scoring typically dictates the need to alter striking distance, speed and tactics so it should alter the basics of how to manage the fighting space.

True grappling arts do not present many opportunities for punching and kicking but they also require balance and coordination that may have been learned from a previous art. I think it will come down to the instructor and student to see how it could be applicable if at all possible given that the nature of both games are so different. Will be interesting to follow your journey here.

To be clear, I'm not saying I can't integrate my striking and grappling. I'm saying if I start throwing punches in my third wrestling practice I'll get thrown out. (Unless maybe it's practice within the context of MMA).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I disagree, you have to go all in for at least 2 or 3 years, before thinking about which technique is better and how they will fit together. Other wise you will think your first art is right about everything.

In general, I agree, but not absolutely. If I trained 3 months in BJJ, I'd be able to quickly decide their approach to ground escapes is better than what I learned in NGA. And I'd probably decide equally quickly that some of the throws/takedowns I know are better (for my purpose) than some in BJJ curriculum. I don't have to lean on my own ability to do them - I can look at what it takes for someone in BJJ to be successful with them, too, as well as the position they put me in at the end.

 

[skribs]

In general, I agree, but not absolutely. If I trained 3 months in BJJ, I'd be able to quickly decide their approach to ground escapes is better than what I learned in NGA. And I'd probably decide equally quickly that some of the throws/takedowns I know are better (for my purpose) than some in BJJ curriculum. I don't have to lean on my own ability to do them - I can look at what it takes for someone in BJJ to be successful with them, too, as well as the position they put me in at the end.

I think it depends on how good you are at assessing the potential of the techniques you're learning vs. your skill with them.

A lot of the stuff I'm learning in hapkido will be useless until I am proficient with it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think it depends on how good you are at assessing the potential of the techniques you're learning vs. your skill with them.

A lot of the stuff I'm learning in hapkido will be useless until I am proficient with it.

Absolutely true. Just as there will likely be some things you can quickly assess ("that's much better than what I have been doing", or "I don't like the end position of that - I wouldn't use that"), there will be others you can't make an assessment of. They might appear to work well for others, for instance, so you give them the benefit of the doubt and learn them to see if they work for you.

Mind you, my prior point about recognizing thing I don't like/wouldn't use doesn't mean I wouldn't still learn them. I might find a takedown I don't like because it forces me to end on the ground in a position that's disadvantageous. But there might still be principles in that takedown that I can make use of, so I'd still want to learn it.

 

[Bruce7]

In general, I agree, but not absolutely. If I trained 3 months in BJJ, I'd be able to quickly decide their approach to ground escapes is better than what I learned in NGA. And I'd probably decide equally quickly that some of the throws/takedowns I know are better (for my purpose) than some in BJJ curriculum. I don't have to lean on my own ability to do them - I can look at what it takes for someone in BJJ to be successful with them, too, as well as the position they put me in at the end.

The point I am trying to make is the more all in you are the better.
The less you compare your old art to your new art the faster and better you will learn the new art.

Had my teacher not shown me the hard way that Kung Fu had merit. I would have mist out on so much. Some things I thought looked dumb, took me a long time to to see its merit. I probably would have understood faster, had I been all in from the first and had not kept comparing Taekwodo to what I was doing.

I may be wrong ,but I think NGA and BBJ are close enough that your 3 months makes sense.
I think MDK and Shotokan are close enough that 3 months makes sense.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

My viewpoint is, assuming you're going to have the time/motivation to actually devote yourself to an art, dont worry about your past art. You can compare at first to figure out if it would be useful for you, but after that just learn what they have to teach. After you've been training for a long while (imo at least a year or two) you can start comparing specific things from the different styles.

 

[Bruce7]

How is what you said incongruous with what I said?

From the way you were writing , I was a afraid you would fall in the the trap I did, of comparing my first art to my second art.
Once I let go and went all in , it was like night and day. It is only when you are all in that you are happy and have the right attitude.
I was young and prideful of my abilities, it was hard to be humble and and empty my cup.

 

[Yokozuna514]

The less you compare your old art to your new art the faster and better you will learn the new art.

My viewpoint is, assuming you're going to have the time/motivation to actually devote yourself to an art, dont worry about your past art.

I agree with both of these statements and would only add that it requires a certain amount of humility to strap on the 'white belt' mentality when moving to another MA. Those that are able to be 'white belts' will be open to the learn what is being offered more readily than someone interested in comparing old vs new. I don't think it takes 3 months or a year to figure out if the new art is going to add to your tool chest. You could probably see that within the first few classes. Giving the art 3 months to a year though is an excellent way to thoroughly determine how much you have progressed and how applicable your prior training was for you to get there so if that is your end game, then it certainly sounds reasonable.