The importance of real experience

[Jared Traveler]

Incidentally I'm not suggesting police work is great experience for all things. In fact doing my work internationally I found the mindset and background of both military and police was largely unhelpful. Largely my previous experience was counter intuitive and counter productive. I had to de-cop to be good at most of what I do now.

 

[drop bear]

One of the quickest ways to make your experience irrelevant is to proclaim you know "the way" or that because you did or experienced something that you know how they need to do it.

Of course people do these things and proclaim these things without experience also, largely linking their experience to a linage or a trainer who gave them the knowledge.

The other issue is basing on experience turns in to basing on image. It changes the priorities of importance when it comes to learning stuff.

So then the focus is on the sizzle and not the steak.

RBSD guys sound like they do. Because that is what RBSD sound like.

 

[Jared Traveler]

The other issue is basing on experience turns in to basing on image. It changes the priorities of importance when it comes to learning stuff.

So then the focus is on the sizzle and not the steak.

RBSD guys sound like they do. Because that is what RBSD sound like.

And/or establishing, creating "heros" instead of focusing on the fact that the student is the potential hero of the story.

The hero worshipping is never good for a tactical community or martial arts in general. But that's what happens when people seek validation vs competency. You see this with elevating "Grand Masters" or speaking training from a certain "Operator" to improve your own image or resume.

 

[drop bear]

The difference teaching a subject like self-defense or anything tactical in nature is the fact that these skills are being trained to be used against real world threats.

While it is a bit hokey to say, the reality is there are no second place trophies in this environment. Which should add weight to the responsibility in providing quality, relevant instruction.

If you coach them wrong and don't prepare them in BJJ, your students get tapped, maybe you lose students. But if you coach them wrong in CCW or self-defense, they get killed, maimed or put in jail.

While the probability of needing real world self-defense is unlikely, the impact of these events when they do happen is very, very high.

Not really in practice though. Because generally the feedback is terrible.

You loose at bjj. You are not good at bjj. You loose on the street. And there are a million other reasons that happened

 

[Jared Traveler]

Not really in practice though. Because generally the feedback is terrible.

You loose at bjj. You are not good at bjj. You loose on the street. And there are a million other reasons that happened

Well, you are talking about the blame game. I'm talking about actually producing good outcomes.

 

[drop bear]

And/or establishing, creating "heros" instead of focusing on the fact that the student is the potential hero of the story.

The hero worshipping is never good for a tactical community or martial arts in general. But that's what happens when people seek validation vs competency. You see this with elevating "Grand Masters" or speaking training from a certain "Operator" to improve your own image or resume.

The tactical community comes from very rigid class structures as well.

So when you go though recruit training and sgt slaughter is showing you how to kill with your bear hands. You don't say boo.

 

[drop bear]

Well, you are talking about the blame game. I'm talking about actually producing good outcomes.

You still need quality feedback to produce good outcomes.

Say I fight a guy on the street. Is that really evidence of competency in self defense?

 

[Jared Traveler]

You still need quality feedback to produce good outcomes.

And a culture that handles failure well. Failure, criticism and making adjustments is a part of a good real world program.

You can't have that if you have made someone out to be a hero or savior.

 

[JowGaWolf]

@drop bear
Don't take this as an insult. You have grown a lot with your fight knowledge since the first time we met. I don't know if you were always like what I'm seeing now and I was just too blind to see. But from where I sit the growth looks really good on you as a martial artist (not sure how you see yourself).

I hope I have grown as much as what I've seen from you lately. Have you been doing any mentoring where you train?

 

[drop bear]

@drop bear
Don't take this as an insult. You have grown a lot with your fight knowledge since the first time we met. I don't know if you were always like what I'm seeing now and I was just too blind to see. But from where I sit the growth looks really good on you as a martial artist (not sure how you see yourself).

I hope I have grown as much as what I've seen from you lately. Have you been doing any mentoring where you train?

Nope. Just wristlocking white belts mostly.

 

[Steve]

@drop bear
Don't take this as an insult. You have grown a lot with your fight knowledge since the first time we met. I don't know if you were always like what I'm seeing now and I was just too blind to see. But from where I sit the growth looks really good on you as a martial artist (not sure how you see yourself).

I hope I have grown as much as what I've seen from you lately. Have you been doing any mentoring where you train?

Unfortunately for Drop Bear, he's always been like this. (Don't take that as an insult, @drop bear ). I think you're just getting to the point where you're able to see it. The growth looks good on you.

I appreciate an early morning laugh. Thank you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Unfortunately for Drop Bear, he's always been like this. (Don't take that as an insult, @drop bear ). I think you're just getting to the point where you're able to see it. The growth looks good on you.

I appreciate an early morning laugh. Thank you.

Well if he's always been like this then I'm glad, I've gotten out of my own way and can now see drop bear for who he really is and for the knowledge he has. If I'm the one that has grown then I'm happy for that. Growth is a good thing so if it's my growth then that's a good thing too.

 

[Darren]

It’s in how you train, taken karate have been in BJJ now for 3-4 months have unintentionally blended karate with BJJ but with no striking nor kicks thrown. So prepare and be prepared!

 

[Steve]

Well if he's always been like this then I'm glad, I've gotten out of my own way and can now see drop bear for who he really is and for the knowledge he has. If I'm the one that has grown then I'm happy for that. Growth is a good thing so if it's my growth then that's a good thing too.

I'm just giving you a hard time. I think you're very practical most of the time and I enjoy reading your posts. Your note just tickled my funny bone a little as I was drinking my first cup of coffee.

 

[windwalker099]

Practiced with a SSG Jimmy Brown while in the military long ago back in the 70s, during the cold war while stationed in Germany, in a Mech infantry unit...testing some of my own work based on Tibetan white crane..

What ever one is teaching, real world experience, according to the encounter level sought makes sense...




"In 1972 Mr. McMurray joined Grandmaster Jim Brown at the Fort Bragg Taekwondo Club. In 1981 Mr. McMurray was promoted to 6th Dan by Grandmaster Soo Kon Kim, Grandmaster Myung Sik and Grandmaster Jim Brown. By 1991 Mr. McMurray earned a 7th Dan in Taekwondo Soo Bahk Do and an 8th Dan in Hapkido Moo Hap Sool from Grandmaster In Sun Seo’s World Kido Federation. In 2011 Mr. McMurray was awarded his 9th Dan by Mr. In Sun Seo.

Mr. McMurray has been ranked in several other martial arts by celebrated masters, including Isshin-Ryu/Uechi-Ryu by Grandmaster George Dillman, Hwarangdo by Master Michael Echanis, Kuk Sool Won by Grandmaster In Sun Seo, Shorei-Ryu by Master Lorraine Lewis, Okinawan-Te and Okinawan weapons by Master Bill McDonald, and Judo/JiuJitsu by O Sensei Philip Porter.


GM McMurray
Grandmaster McMurray is also a former Special Forces / U.S. Ranger Combat Instructor who served two consecutive tours in active combat zones. He is a qualified sniper, an expert in unarmed self-defense, and adept at unconventional warfare. He specializes in “silent-sentry takeout” via pressure points, strangulation and bladed weapons. Several military units and police departments in the United States and Germany have benefited from Grandmaster McMurray’s training in unarmed and “personal armed” self-defense and “suspect control” techniques. He is currently the U.S. Military Martial Arts Coordinator and Advisor to III Corps & Fort Hood."

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm just giving you a hard time. I think you're very practical most of the time and I enjoy reading your posts. Your note just tickled my funny bone a little as I was drinking my first cup of coffee.

Well I'm glad it gave you a good chuckle. That's always good too.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Mr. McMurray has been ranked in several other martial arts by celebrated masters, including Isshin-Ryu/Uechi-Ryu by Grandmaster George Dillman, Hwarangdo by Master Michael Echanis, Kuk Sool Won by Grandmaster In Sun Seo, Shorei-Ryu by Master Lorraine Lewis, Okinawan-Te and Okinawan weapons by Master Bill McDonald, and Judo/JiuJitsu by O Sensei Philip Porter.

The George Dillman nonsense pretty much invalidates anything else, in my opinion.

 

[windwalker099]

The George Dillman nonsense pretty much invalidates anything else, in my opinion.

What ever, everyone has an opinion...

His name was included in the link..Have seen some of his work at a demo he did...It seemed like at the time what ever he did.
One of his "iight " touches, would somehow be at the carotic artery on the neck.. asking for volunteers from the audience to get knocked out by him....no thanks

Know people who do practice point hitting based on Chinese methods...
in my experience its real,, although not something I would recommend others to experiment with,
or allow people to try on them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The George Dillman nonsense pretty much invalidates anything else, in my opinion.

I always forget who he is, and I always look him up and have the same response "oh that guy"

 

[windwalker099]

I always forget who he is, and I always look him up and have the same response "oh that guy"

Anyone one of you meet "that guy" ...Only saw him at tournament doing a demo...
asking for members of the audience to participate in getting knocked out.

oh ya good idea...

Back in the day, another teacher Taika Oyata
"Oyata first learned Okinawan weapons (kobudo) from Uhugushiku, a bushi and retired palace guard.

He also studied with Wakinaguri,[1][9][10] whose family was descended from the Chinese families who emigrated to Ryukyu during the Ming Dynasty. "

noted for his touch knock outs..

Like teacher Dilman,,,watch the demo...

Get hit directly or indirectly on the carotic artery, even a light touch can disrupt blood flow to the brain...
not good....

In boxing there are what are sometimes called buttons used by boxers for knock outs...also not good...
Even if one is not knocked lots of damage "punch drunk" comes to mind