Pet peeves while training in Japan

[Kreth]

Sometimes I wonder about people who will go halfway around the world for training, and then make asses of themselves. Some pet peeves of mine:
People who have a conversation with Hatsumi sensei or one of the Japanese shihan, with a translator involved, and address themselves to the translator. It's pretty rude to have a conversation with someone, especially the seniors of your organization, and not give them the courtesy of facing them.
People who take translators for granted. This person is giving up part of their training time to help you understand what's being said. A thanks is in order at the very least.
People with no respect for others in the dojo. On one of my trips, a friend laid his dogi top on the tatami to fold it. Another student walked over it!
Slobs who leave trash all over outside Honbu Dojo.

 

[Koinu]

Good Thread Kreth.
People walking on the paperwork and money while Ohashi San is trying to record the attendee's, it is not a peeve just plain rude.

People leaving a class when they find out one of the Shihan is teaching instead of Soke.

Trash issue of course, fouling our own nest really smart not to mention that we are suppose to be training to not be noticed and leave no trace.
In a similar vain is the Training bags/shoes issue all though it is sometimes hard not to have bags/shoes everywhere at the Hombu some care needs to be taken by everyone to allow Soke and everyone else clear path to walk into and out of areas they need to go including the front doors.

 

[saru1968]

Videotaping a top Japanese Shihan's lesson without even asking.


Acting like 'they' are on a loutish holiday whilst out sightseeing.


Dropping rubbish.

Refusing to help clear up the dojo floor.


Turning up drunk for training at Honbu.


Just a few things i Saw on my last visit!

:-(

 

[MJS]

WOW!! Sounds like there are some people out there that need to learn some manners.

Out of curiosity, is anything said to these people? I would think that if they're being that disrespectful to the dojo, both inside and out, as well as the Shihan or Soke, that they would not be allowed back to train.

Mike

 

[Kreth]

Unfortunately no. Very rarely will one of the Japanese seniors come right out and yell at someone. And usually the instructor of the moron in question is just as bad, if not the culprit him/herself.

 

[MJS]

Its really a shame. I've always felt that when you go to someone elses 'home', you should have some degree of respect. For someone to totally disrespect Senior teachers, the training hall, etc., certainly does not say much for those people.

At the very least, I'd figure the Seniors or someone might quietly say something or possibly call that person up to help demo a technique. Nothing like tweaking a lock to get your point across!:EG:

 

[Don Roley]

Don't
Get
Me
Started....:soapbox:

Kreth is right. The Japanese tend not to say much in public or directly to someone. And there is some sort of cultural adversion to turning someone down directly. A lot of people abuse this, or do not realize it. Just because no one tells you that what you are doing is wrong, does not mean that it is right.

 

[Kreth]

FWIW, here's the rule of thumb I use... Hatsumi sensei and the Japanese shihan are more accustomed to Westerners than a typical Japanese. If they seem reticent to talk/deal with you, examine your behavior to see what you've done wrong.
I'm far from a Japanese language expert, but I was able to pick up a lot of extra info from Sensei and the shihan I trained with, just by observing common courtesy. Hell, Shiraishi sensei once gave a ride to me and a group of Aussies just so we could attend his class.

 

[terryl965]

I would have to agree that the Asian folks seem to be able to bit there tounge more so than the western civilazation,I have seen so many folks dis-respect them while they are training it is bad. Respect is a blurr in the mirror for some. Kreth you and Don are right on the money in your statements.
Terry

 

[Manzyberranzan]

Although the stories and examples of this thread are improper and irritating, they are also very educational. Before my first trip to Japan last October I searched many discussion boards for just this kind of information so as to not duplicate any impolite action. I of course spoke with my teacher about the matter too.

OT: hello everybody! A new poster here from Finland!

 

[Cryozombie]

Welcome to Martial Talk!

 

[Bujingodai]

So maybe it would be a good idea to have a thread here about etiquette.
I am guilty of it. I have stepped over weapons and showed the bottom of my feet, etc etc non intentionally til someone sat down and educated me on some of the points.
Mind you leaving garbage around and interuppting etc is just basic manners one doing that is pretty ignorant anyways.

But being for me as I am going to Japan in September likely would love to know some of the finer points one should watch out for. I may know a bunch of them now anyway, but I doubt it.

 

[Blindside]

Not specific to martial arts training, but don't pour soy sauce on your rice, particularly if you are in someones home. It can be interpreted as "your rice is so bad, I have to cover up the taste."

Also don't stick your chopsticks in your rice bowl so they stand up, that is how offerings to the dead are made.

Just some stuff I learned from my mom.

Lamont

 

[Kreth]

More chopsticks etiquette.

 

[Don Roley]

So maybe it would be a good idea to have a thread here about etiquette.
I am guilty of it. I have stepped over weapons and showed the bottom of my feet, etc etc non intentionally til someone sat down and educated me on some of the points.
Mind you leaving garbage around and interuppting etc is just basic manners one doing that is pretty ignorant anyways.

But being for me as I am going to Japan in September likely would love to know some of the finer points one should watch out for. I may know a bunch of them now anyway, but I doubt it.

There is already a thread about things you should know when going to Japan.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17457

One thing you really should try to do is do what the teachers are doing!!!!!!!!!

That is one of my pet peeves. I really can't understand why people would spend thousands of dollars in air fare and hotel bills only to do what they want and not what the teacher has shown. I have heard excuses like this, "if you only imitate what Hatsumi does, you will never make the art your own." Excuse me? Don't these morons think that maybe Hatsumi is showing something for a damn good reason? Do they honestly believe they are good enough to know what is best for them better than Hatsumi does?

And I have heard a few comments by some of the Japanese shihan about folks that do things like that. I think it is rude and disgracefull to not even try to do something that the teacher is showing. If you can't make it work, it is because you don't know enough. If you do something else, you don't learn the stuff it takes to make the technique work.

Oh sure, I have seen things that work for big people but not for anyone smaller. But that is not the type of thing I see from the Japanese shihan.

So if a teacher cares, he would probably pull out something you have difficulty with rather than keep inside your comfort zone. But if you do not try to deal with that point, you are not only tossing away a chance to correct a flaw in your taijutsu, you are slapping the shihan in the face and saying that you do not respect his choice of what you are weak in.

:soapbox:

 

[Dale Seago]

So if a teacher cares, he would probably pull out something you have difficulty with rather than keep inside your comfort zone. But if you do not try to deal with that point, you are not only tossing away a chance to correct a flaw in your taijutsu, you are slapping the shihan in the face and saying that you do not respect his choice of what you are weak in.

That's a really important point, as what is intended to be communication may not always be "overt" or direct as it would be in Western culture. When you've developed a relationship over time with a shihan and demonstrated to him through your actions that you really want to learn, you may be fortunate enough to have him tell you frankly, "That's crap". But until then, it's most likely to be the kind of thing Don describes.

 

[Bujingodai]

Thanks for the link Don,
I can't see why personally anyoone wouldn't try and imitate what is being done. That is what they are there for. You can create on your own time if thats what you are going to do.

 

[Kreth]

Thanks for the link Don,
I can't see why personally anyoone wouldn't try and imitate what is being done. That is what they are there for. You can create on your own time if thats what you are going to do.

Because some "teachers" have an image to maintain in front of their students at all costs...

 

[Bujingodai]

Well I'd be going there with the haven't a clue mindframe, so no I will try and do what I see, instead of interpreting it for myself.
Made that mistake too many times in the past.

 

[Fluffy]

Belts on the floor............you worked a good part of your life to earn a black belt, and you toos it on the floor at the end of the day.......just bugs me.

-Fluff