Training in Japan, a few tips!

[bencole]

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for someone who fails to do any research on their own and demands to be spoon-fed information.

I understand Kreth's argument, but the fact is that *THIS INFORMATION IS NOT PUBLICLY AVAILABLE*. As Brian said:

I think that what is frustrating for people going to Japan is that there are no times, dates, location, fees for training posted for training with the Japanese Shihan.

So long as Soke says that is the rule, it is up to "people in the know" to provide this information to those they deem appropriate to receive the information.

Sorry if that inconveniences you (or me or Shawn or Don), but you cannot pretend to take a place of authority (either as someone who trains regularly with Soke, or as someone who is informed about training or history or whatever) and *NOT* expect to get these types of emails.

If someone considers his "filter of acceptability" whether he knows you or not, then that is his perogative. An alternative perspective is that the evaluators could spend some time getting to know the individual and making a determination. It seems like the poster of the complaint just doesn't want to be bothered with helping people, which is not really fulfilling his role in the Bujinkan.

Granted, some individuals in Japan have never liked when I have insisted that they *HAVE A ROLE* to fill, whether they like it or not. As senior foreign members of the Bujinkan, they do. It's called giri in Japanese, and you really have no choice in the matter. You do it, because it's your responsibility.

In the end, if one's loyalties are to Soke, and Soke has a rule that says that this information should *NOT* be posted for simply anyone to access and instead should be accessed on a "need to know" basis, then those doing the evaluation will use different heuristics.

One would hope that the heuristic was *BENEFICIAL* to the Bujinkan, rather than merely being *CONVENIENT* for the evaluator.

-ben

P.S. I have certainly walked many miles in Shawn's shoes. I used to get scores of emails a week while I was in Japan regarding training. I answered them all and always did my best to assist the individual and serve Soke. That's part of training, imo. Just as some dojo in Japan will obligate certain people to mop the dojo, or wash all the stinky dogi, we in the Bujinkan have the giri to answer inquiries from around the world. Running away from this obligation is truly inappropriate, imo. But that's just my opinion, and others will clearly disagree....

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think you are pretty right on Ben. We seem to be in agreement in our opinion on the matter. Though I also respect anyone else's right to make their own decisions concerning this.

 

[Bigshadow]

Ben thanks for the post! Fortunately I am not in a position where I get bombarded with email. I do try to be helpful to those that ask, if they are sincere. But most of my inquiries have been in person and my gut feel of their sincerity tempers my answers.

I speak often about on and giri to folks and the importance of it. That post has definitely affected my outlook on these matters. Thanks again.

Of course in my previous posts I was referring to things in general not specifically Bujinkan information.

 

[Tez3]

Would all of this advice and gripes alike apply to all Martial Arts in Japan do you think?

Recently one of the universities over here released some statistics on the aplications they received from prospective students wanting to study with them. Nearly 300 wrote (in the same words) that since they were little and had burned a hole in their pyjamas with their toy chemistry set they had wanted to study chemistry, ah the power of the internet.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

It's as easy as arranging a stay at Shawn's place during your trip to Japan.

 

[bencole]

It's as easy as arranging a stay at Shawn's place during your trip to Japan.

I certainly hope this is not what Shawn was suggesting when he stated, "This to me looks like a purchase order for a product (Only in this case there was no 'purchase') rather than a request for a favour from someone you've never met." If the standard of whether one "knows someone" is whether one is lining the someone's pocket, then we have a problem, Houston.

It's also hard to plan such a trip if you do not know (1) if there is going to be training on the days that you will be there, and (2) don't know where the training is in proximity to "Shawn's place." Shawn's place is quite inconvenient if you want to train with Nagato-sensei or Nakadai-sensei, for example. But how would someone travelling to Japan *KNOW* this if s/he cannot ask anyone whom they have never met?!?

Oh, of course. Just agree to pay room fees and everything will be cleared up. :bang head:

This is not a solution that should be institutitionalized within the Bujinkan, in my opinion. A more appropriate (and less conflict ridden) solution is for senior foreign practitioners in Japan to fulfill their obligations to Hatsumi-sensei, not out of convenience or pecuniary reasoning, but because *ITS PART OF THE PACKAGE* of being a senior foreign practitioner in Japan.

-ben

 

[Kreth]

I certainly hope this is not what Shawn was suggesting when he stated, "This to me looks like a purchase order for a product (Only in this case there was no 'purchase') rather than a request for a favour from someone you've never met." If the standard of whether one "knows someone" is whether one is lining the someone's pocket, then we have a problem, Houston.

That's not how I read it at all. It sounded like he was saying that the "request" sounded like a detailed purchase order, only with no money being paid. I think Shawn does a lot to help out people coming to Japan, often with little or no thanks. I agree with what Don was saying. On my first trip, when I stayed at Shawn's place, I asked him if I could bring anything over for him that was tough to get in Japan, as my way of thanking him for his help.

This is not a solution that should be institutitionalized within the Bujinkan, in my opinion. A more appropriate (and less conflict ridden) solution is for senior foreign practitioners in Japan to fulfill their obligations to Hatsumi-sensei, not out of convenience or pecuniary reasoning, but because *ITS PART OF THE PACKAGE* of being a senior foreign practitioner in Japan.

I agree with this to a point. But I can see the problem when someone like Shawn is spending large amounts of time responding to requests, some of them little more than demands. Hence my comment about the library. Sure, you can ask for information, but show some common courtesy.

 

[stephen]

If everyone is supposed to go to Japan every year or train with someone that does, doesn't that imply everyone should already have a source of information? That is, that person who DOES go already?

 

[bencole]

Sure, you can ask for information, but show some common courtesy.

I agree.

-ben

 

[Seattletcj]

Sorry if that inconveniences you (or me or Shawn or Don), but you cannot pretend to take a place of authority (either as someone who trains regularly with Soke, or as someone who is informed about training or history or whatever) and *NOT* expect to get these types of emails.

Good point Ben.
If you are very visable on the web, taking a very authorative position on all things "officially" bujinkan...well, what do you expect !
Seriously...I get junk mail. It doesnt mean I delete my e-mail account.

draaaaama. :vu:

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think that we all need to remember that we need to be courteous, respectful and patient due to learning a Japanese art. When dealing with seniors and needing a favor alway's ask politely and respectfully for information. I do not see anything wrong with this and I would follow this protocal when dealing with anyone.

 

[El Guapo-san]

Ok, as someone who owns a commmercial website and who is learning the ropes from, well, folks in the know... here's a little tip. Make a general email with an automated responder. You program this o automatically respond to any email, and as a part of the email, you say "For information on training, please see X. I would like to help more, but due to the volume of email, cannot." For those in the know, you have a private email.

Nobody feels ignored (everyone gets a response), even if it is just a form email. Supposedly for commercial sites, it's the immediacy of response that counts more than anything else.

Sorry, Dita van Teese is on TV. She was supposedly hanging out with a friend of a friend at a concert of their's in LA a few months ago. Must go drool.

 

[Shicomm]

With a couple of days of training over here in Japan things become more clear now.
The best way to get your training info in Japan is to have a place to stay with a lot of nice people training.
They don`t have any problems on sharing that info and in the evening with a couple of beers you can even share some great experiences from the various classes.

If people would ask me where to find such place to stay i`d be happy to tell them about my experiences here

 

[Brad737]

I realize this is an OLD thread, but great info! Now off to google how much beer I can bring!