Perspectives on Alcohol

[RandomPhantom700]

Greetings. I'd like to get a general feel for what everyone here, martial artists or not, thinks about drinking. Pretty broad question, so I think I'll start it off with a few guiding questions.

1. Do you think that moderate drinking can be healthy, or at least not be detrimental to one's health and well-being, or do you think that any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign? Why?

2. Is it possible to drink responsibly, like all the beer commercials say?

3. Can drinking interfere with martial arts studies? By this, I don't mean does getting drunk and then going to sessions cause a problem--that answer is an obvious yes. I am more curious as to whether someone who drinks is impairing their overall development by doing so.

4. How would you honestly deal with a good friend of yours who you realize has a drinking problem?

5. Finally, just for grins, if anyone has any stories that mix alcohol with martial arts, please share.

Thank you ahead of time.

 

[Cryozombie]

1. Do you think that moderate drinking can be healthy, or at least not be detrimental to one's health and well-being, or do you think that any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign? Why?

Alcohol is fine, as long as, like everything else, its done in moderation.

2. Is it possible to drink responsibly, like all the beer commercials say?

Yes. If you drink in moderation, arrange transportation so that someone who is not intoxicated drives, etc... it is completely possible.

3. Can drinking interfere with martial arts studies? By this, I don't mean does getting drunk and then going to sessions cause a problem--that answer is an obvious yes. I am more curious as to whether someone who drinks is impairing their overall development by doing so.

I dont think so... I know masters... true masters, not just people using the term, who drink.

4. How would you honestly deal with a good friend of yours who you realize has a drinking problem?

I dont know.

5. Finally, just for grins, if anyone has any stories that mix alcohol with martial arts, please share

This one... This one I refuse to answer on the grounds it might incriminate me.

 

[OUMoose]

1) I believe that anything done in moderation is healthy for the spirit. For the body, the opinions change almost weekly it seems.

2) I believe a person can drink responsibly, with a minimal amount of self-control. Then again, what's your definition of that? 1 drink? 2 drinks? not drinking and driving?

3) Overall, I don't think it would impede anything as far as training. As you said, showing up drunk to class is never a good idea, and I would never recommend it to anyone. Learning to know what the physical implications of intoxication, though, such as slowed reaction time, reduced balance, increased pain tolerance, etc, would be beneficial to knowing ones self and ones limits.

4) This is never easy for any kind of addiction. There is only so much you can do. Talk with the person, and be supportive as opposed to demanding. Suggest other things to do that don't involve drinking perhaps. If they become agressive, step back and let them calm down and perhaps seek professional help or a group (al-anon or something).

5) no.... never.... *eyes Lobo to shush too*

 

[Nightingale]

I'll have one or two drinks when I'm out shooting pool with my friends, or after skydiving. I've never been drunk, and I never plan to get drunk.

I do believe you can drink responsibly:

if I'm driving, I don't drink.
If I'm alone, I don't drink.
If I'm somewhere unfamiliar, I don't drink.

when I do drink, I'm out among friends, or at my own home or my boyfriend's home, and I don't have more than one or two.

 

[Raewyn]

Greetings. I'd like to get a general feel for what everyone here, martial artists or not, thinks about drinking. Pretty broad question, so I think I'll start it off with a few guiding questions.

1. Do you think that moderate drinking can be healthy, or at least not be detrimental to one's health and well-being, or do you think that any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign? Why?

2. Is it possible to drink responsibly, like all the beer commercials say?

3. Can drinking interfere with martial arts studies? By this, I don't mean does getting drunk and then going to sessions cause a problem--that answer is an obvious yes. I am more curious as to whether someone who drinks is impairing their overall development by doing so.

4. How would you honestly deal with a good friend of yours who you realize has a drinking problem?

5. Finally, just for grins, if anyone has any stories that mix alcohol with martial arts, please share.

Thank you ahead of time.

I used to drink quite alot as in every night of the week. Now that Ive been doing MA I dont have the time. But as everbody has said here, everything in moderation. I would not even dream of going to training after a few drinks. I am now what you call a binge drinker. When there is a function on I sort of drink until I cant drink anymore!!!! but that is once in a blue moon now. I dont know if its inpairing my training. I would'nt think so as I do not drink as much as I used too.

 

[deadhand31]

1. Do you think that moderate drinking can be healthy, or at least not be detrimental to one's health and well-being, or do you think that any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign? Why?

I don't think that moderate drinking has concrete health benefits, no. I do think that one can drink moderately without it being detrimental. Hell, I know that I do.

2. Is it possible to drink responsibly, like all the beer commercials say?

Yes. If I know I'm going to be drinking, I make sure in advance that I have a place to stay should I not be able to drive home. All friends are instructed to take away my keys if I even think to drive when I'm not able to. I have done the same to someone who thought they were able to drive. So far, I have never had to have my friends take away my keys. If I do drive home, I limit myself to 3 drinks, with a 2 hour wait after the last drink. This is safe for me for two reasons; I'm big, and I'm Irish. 3 drinks is only breakfast to me.

3. Can drinking interfere with martial arts studies? By this, I don't mean does getting drunk and then going to sessions cause a problem--that answer is an obvious yes. I am more curious as to whether someone who drinks is impairing their overall development by doing so.

Yes, alcoholism can impact every segment of life. Also, if your name appears in the paper for drunken disorderly/DWI, then the parents of kids you may instruct may question if it is a healthy environment for their kids.

4. How would you honestly deal with a good friend of yours who you realize has a drinking problem?

Confront them, and hold my ground.

 

[Gary Crawford]

I only drink when I'm alone or with someone!

 

[shesulsa]

1. Do you think that moderate drinking can be healthy, or at least not be detrimental to one's health and well-being, or do you think that any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign? Why?

Drinking healthy, wholesome and high-quality wine can lower your cholesterol, triglycerides and aide in digestion when used responsibly in small quantities. As I stated in a similar thread, my husband and I make our own wine so that we control what goes into wine. We also occasionally imbibe in small amounts of spirits - hard liquor, that is, and we try to get higher grade liquor. I think any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign for an alcoholic.

2. Is it possible to drink responsibly, like all the beer commercials say?

Yes, but it's not near as much fun. Of course, neither is being paralyzed and in prison for murder because you tried to drive home drunk and killed someone else. And if you find a spirit you particularly enjoy and find a way to become cerebral about it, you tend to imbibe more responsibly and not just drink to get drunk. It becomes more about the science of fermentation, flavor preservation without additives, quality of grain, location of growth, etcetera.

3. Can drinking interfere with martial arts studies? By this, I don't mean does getting drunk and then going to sessions cause a problem--that answer is an obvious yes. I am more curious as to whether someone who drinks is impairing their overall development by doing so.

If one drinks too regularly, say more than once per week, I think it is detrimental to just about anything they cherish in life. IMHO

4. How would you honestly deal with a good friend of yours who you realize has a drinking problem?

What I did was confront her. She doesn't have a problem, by the way. She can't stop on her own, and considers it her lifestyle, but she's not addicted and she's not in denial. We are no longer friends because I can't handle addicts in my life - it's not something I do well.

5. Finally, just for grins, if anyone has any stories that mix alcohol with martial arts, please share.

Try getting ripped on six shots of top shelf tequila, a couple glasses of beer, some champaigne, a glass or two of wine, and do a spin kick or two! ...or...limit your intake. {Farang, KJN! :ultracool}

 

[MA-Caver]

1. Do you think that moderate drinking can be healthy, or at least not be detrimental to one's health and well-being, or do you think that any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign? Why?

As a recovering alcoholic of 15 years I think I can answer this one, uhmm...what was the question?? . I've heard someone say (in a popular 12 step programme) that "moderate-drinking" is a myth. I disagree because I do have close friends who fall into that catagory and have remained so for years without any (notable) increase in their consumption. They are healthy and productive members of society.
For myself, alas, this is not so. Exactly why isn't really clear nor it verified (in stone) by science. Some say genetics ( I say just the desire to drink until the body's dependency becomes too unbearable to deny).
I do not think ANY amount is a bad sign, I DO think that copious amounts is. That varies with the individual. I've seen folks take one drink and BAM ... they're outta the game. I've seen others take a whole case and you'd never know they were intoxicated if you didn't smell the alcohol coming outta their pores. So it varies with an individual's tolerance level... during my days of drinking I was able to at least be counted on to down anywhere from a six pack to half a case by myself.

2. Is it possible to drink responsibly, like all the beer commercials say?

I say yes, but then it depends upon the responsibility of the individual. Everyone should know when to say when (as a popular beer commercial says).

3. Can drinking interfere with martial arts studies? By this, I don't mean does getting drunk and then going to sessions cause a problem--that answer is an obvious yes. I am more curious as to whether someone who drinks is impairing their overall development by doing so.

It is possible, depending upon the body's reaction to alcohol over the long term... by this I don't mean years, but as soon as weeks or months. If a person is likely to become an alcoholic then the substance will continue to impair them long after they are "sober". The hardest thing is convincing them that it's the alcohol that is impairing them. Remember that alcohol basically by itself contains two base ingredients... ETHER and water. We all (should)know what ether is and what it can do. So think about increasing the numbing and nyllifying effects the drug can have and then multiply it increasingly over time. Again, I point out that it all depends upon the individual and their personal tolerance to the drug/alcohol and the amount they consume over any given period of time.

4. How would you honestly deal with a good friend of yours who you realize has a drinking problem?

Did you just finally got around to asking this... was this your real question and the other four just a way of masking your real intent to ask this particular question... (just speculating.. :asian: )
Whoo, this is probably a tough one to answer because the variables are so numerous that I'd take up a lot of mbs of space. But in short ; you'd be better off going straight up and telling them that in your opinion they have a drinking problem and then be ready to back it up (when asked to) with known facts and that they(the facts) can be verified. Perhaps have an intervention session with other MA's or friends/family. Don't preach or be condescending for crying out loud... (we (alcoholics) hate that), just be straight up and honest and to the point. We (alcoholics) will either get it or don't...or won't.
They're probably going to react in one of these ways... they'll tell you to kiss off (or worse) and go on doing what they're doing and either or not break off friendship with you, or they'll take it to heart but keep on drinking, or they'll listen up and get their heads out of their arses and actually (try) to do something about it. Some folks just have to hit their bottom before they come to terms with it. Unfortunately not all survive the crash. If they do survive then the next step is that they got to WANT to quit before they can.
If they've (while sober) the capacity of loving God/their creator then (try to) have them realize that if they LOVE their family/friends/life then they might want to consider getting help. If not, then trying to rationalize with them isn't going to help. I've maintianed my 15 years of soberiety only by the grace of God and the err, other 12 things (mentioned above).
There is of course a hellva lot more I can say but ... I won't outta respect for others who may have better things/way to say than I can... :asian:

5. Finally, just for grins, if anyone has any stories that mix alcohol with martial arts, please share.

Only one comes to mind out of a dozen or so... a MA friend of mine years and years ago got drunk and got in a fight with a tree... needless to say the tree won.

Thank you ahead of time.

You weckum'... grins..

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Did you just finally got around to asking this... was this your real question and the other four just a way of masking your real intent to ask this particular question... (just speculating.. )

Nope, just decided to throw it in there so that I could have 5 questions, just because I like the number 5. To be honest, questions 2 and 3 were the ones I had in mind when I started the thread. I ask because a friend of mine argues that it's categorically impossible to "drink responsibly", so I decided to see if anyone would agree on here.

 

[MA-Caver]

Nope, just decided to throw it in there so that I could have 5 questions, just because I like the number 5. To be honest, questions 2 and 3 were the ones I had in mind when I started the thread. I ask because a friend of mine argues that it's categorically impossible to "drink responsibly", so I decided to see if anyone would agree on here.

Heh, had to ask due to personal experiences with people beating around the bush to avoid making it look like they were the ones who really had the problem or they had a close friend/family/spouse that they were embarrassed about. Those were good questions...
Tell your friend that they can opinionize all they want on the "categorically impossible" as far as alcohol and it's "isms"... just hope/pray that they never have to find out for themselves personally.
IMO, alcoholism is just a symptom of a bigger problem of the individual.
:asian:

 

[OULobo]

1. Do you think that moderate drinking can be healthy, or at least not be detrimental to one's health and well-being, or do you think that any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign? Why?

Some medical studies show slight to moderate consumption helps fight heart disease. It can beat up your liver and kidneys though. I personally think that it helps with stress and has more benefits than negatives if you stay out of the abuse habits.

2. Is it possible to drink responsibly, like all the beer commercials say?

Absolutely. If you don't drive and don't get "light you hair on fire" drunk.

3. Can drinking interfere with martial arts studies? By this, I don't mean does getting drunk and then going to sessions cause a problem--that answer is an obvious yes. I am more curious as to whether someone who drinks is impairing their overall development by doing so.

No, the effects of alcohol in moderation are temporary. Those effects should, however be taken into account when training.

4. How would you honestly deal with a good friend of yours who you realize has a drinking problem?

Confrontation. Tell them they have a problem and tell them that if it becomes destructive you won't be dragged down with them.

5. Finally, just for grins, if anyone has any stories that mix alcohol with martial arts, please share.

Thank you ahead of time.

 

[Flatlander]

1. Do you think that moderate drinking can be healthy, or at least not be detrimental to one's health and well-being, or do you think that any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign? Why?

I am unsure of the definition of moderate drinking. Speaking from my experience with booze, which has been enlightening and dangerous, I would say that a dependance on liquor is probably not desirable, but that drinking in a safe way is not necessarily a bad sign.

I think that some people are prone to addiction, while others seem to be impervious, and so in this reality, there can be no abslolute good or bad behaviour. I think if one is prone to addiction, one should be very, very mindful of how they use alcohol. I think that if one is naturally non-prone to addiction, they should be very, very mindful of how they behave when intoxicated. You need not be an alcoholic to act like an *** when you're drunk.

2. Is it possible to drink responsibly, like all the beer commercials say?

My definition of drinking irresponsibly includes:
a) Drinking until you unswallow is irresponsible
b) Drinking and driving is a big no-no
c) Drinking, and being unable to control your mouth is irresponsible
d) Drinking and generally losing control of your behaviour is irresponsible

However, drinking is fun for me, and I have managed, through experience and reflection, to BECOME a responsible drinker. Notice that I highlighted "become". I believe that responsible use of alcohol is a learned behaviour, not a natural one. To just "go with the flow" of booze generally gets people into trouble... or so I hear.. One needs to "live and learn", as it were, in order to treat alcohol with the respect that it requires, in order to be a responsible drinker.

3. Can drinking interfere with martial arts studies? By this, I don't mean does getting drunk and then going to sessions cause a problem--that answer is an obvious yes. I am more curious as to whether someone who drinks is impairing their overall development by doing so.

Probably, but that would likely be more along the lines of - drinking impairing one's general health, therefore, they are unable to perform their art as they could were they healthy. As well, my understanding is that someone who drinks excessively will have decreased memory capabilities. I do not think that someone who drinks responsibly will be impeded in their ability to learn and perform the martial arts, when they are sober.

4. How would you honestly deal with a good friend of yours who you realize has a drinking problem?

I don't really know...I have never needed to approach that problem before. Hopefully, I never will.

5. Finally, just for grins, if anyone has any stories that mix alcohol with martial arts, please share.

Numerous times, I have been under the influence, and tried to practice martial arts, just to see how it works. I have so far been unsuccessful in doing it well. One's motor skills become pretty imprecise, making it quite difficult to be graceful.

 

[bullydog]

Lots of good points. I have heard the same about alcohol being good for the heart. I believe they said the Hops in the alcohol, specifically, but don't quote me. Something I find funny... Many of the martial arts derived from places where they constantly drank Saki, anyone hear ever drink that? If so, you know what I'm saying :uhyeah: If they can drink that and still find time to put together an art that stays around for 800 years, it can't be all bad. :idunno:

 

[Mark Weiser]

Pesonally I never touch the stuff. I like absoulte control as much as possible in my enviroment.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

1. Do you think that moderate drinking can be healthy, or at least not be detrimental to one's health and well-being, or do you think that any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign? Why?

I think that moderate drinking...two glasses a day being my definition of moderate...can be healthy. Particularly if it is red wine, which supposedly confers a healthy benefit to the heart. This assumes the person drinking is not driving after indulging. Two drinks can take a fairly small person over the legal limit.

2. Is it possible to drink responsibly, like all the beer commercials say?

Not if you're an alcoholic.

3. Can drinking interfere with martial arts studies? By this, I don't mean does getting drunk and then going to sessions cause a problem--that answer is an obvious yes. I am more curious as to whether someone who drinks is impairing their overall development by doing so.

Not in my experience...and I'm a reformed drunk. As a younger man I could drink and train the next day without penalty. If I had continued drinking, I have no doubts whatsoever that it would have had a deleterious effect on my training...but then, I WAS a drunk, and that goes with the territory once that liver fails to keep up. I was young and healthy and in incredible shape. The addiction had not yet dissipated me. It would have within five to ten years.

4. How would you honestly deal with a good friend of yours who you realize has a drinking problem?

There are books that discuss that, and I suggest you peruse them...as I've never had to do it. Years ago they'd recommend a family intervention with maybe a pastor or employer in on the discussion. I don't know about now.

Your friend might find a lot of people who encourage him to continue drinking...like his drinking buddies, family members in denial, whatever. If he isn't ready to change, he'll be more than willing to believe them.

5. Finally, just for grins, if anyone has any stories that mix alcohol with martial arts, please share.

Once, back in college, I had too much to drink. I headbutted a water cooler and killed it. The front of it never quite fit back on quite right because I bent it out of shape. After that incident if you bumped the thing while drinking the front would fall off with a dramatic clanging sound.

I also recall the clanging sound when I headbutted it. Like a gong going off in my head. Very dramatic. Very satisfying, too.

It never gave cold water again.



Regards,


Steve

 

[Gary Crawford]

I feel sorry for people who don't drink,when they wake up in the morning,that's the best they are going to feel all day.

 

[MisterMike]

I feel sorry for people who don't drink,when they wake up in the morning,that's the best they are going to feel all day.

:lol:

 

[psi_radar]

1. Do you think that moderate drinking can be healthy, or at least not be detrimental to one's health and well-being, or do you think that any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign? Why?
Yes. My brother-in-law did some of the research that led to the conclusion that alcohol in moderation, particularly red wine, is good for the circulatory system. I think it's also a good reliever of stress (like someone else said).

2. Is it possible to drink responsibly, like all the beer commercials say?
Yeah, but if you hang out with people who don't, you'll look much better in comparison.


3. Can drinking interfere with martial arts studies? By this, I don't mean does getting drunk and then going to sessions cause a problem--that answer is an obvious yes. I am more curious as to whether someone who drinks is impairing their overall development by doing so.

For me, yes. I've attained that age in life where I have to watch my diet carefully to keep from gaining weight, and there are so many empty calories in alcohol that I try to only imbibe about 4 drinks a week. Although there are many good movers in Kenpo (and MA) who are heavy set, I think being lean, fast and mobile presents more advantages than having a lot of back-up mass. I don't always follow my own rules. Summertime parties are a killer.
Also, hangovers, poor sleep, and dehydration aren't good for the body or the mind.


4. How would you honestly deal with a good friend of yours who you realize has a drinking problem?
I just did this recently. Honest confrontation. It didn't get very far. He's pretty much self-destructive and admits it, so there's not much to do. You can't make people change.

5. Finally, just for grins, if anyone has any stories that mix alcohol with martial arts, please share.
Every now and then a particular friend of mine slug back some cool beverages and do our "feats of strength." First we see who can do however many dips or pullups or whatever (the warm-up), then we start fighting, usually in the back yard. It's very manly and stupid (redundant?). The adrenalin and pain usually sobers us up a little. We trust each other enough to be sure we'll still be friends at the end of the night. Although I wouldn't recommend this to everyone, chances are, for those of us who drink, we might have to fight a little intoxicated at one point or another, so it's kind of situational training.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Only one comes to mind out of a dozen or so... a MA friend of mine years and years ago got drunk and got in a fight with a tree... needless to say the tree won.

Trees are sneaky like that.

My two cents...

1. Do you think that moderate drinking can be healthy, or at least not be detrimental to one's health and well-being, or do you think that any amount of alcoholic consumption is a bad sign? Why?

2. Is it possible to drink responsibly, like all the beer commercials say?

3. Can drinking interfere with martial arts studies? By this, I don't mean does getting drunk and then going to sessions cause a problem--that answer is an obvious yes. I am more curious as to whether someone who drinks is impairing their overall development by doing so.

4. How would you honestly deal with a good friend of yours who you realize has a drinking problem?

5. Finally, just for grins, if anyone has any stories that mix alcohol with martial arts, please share.

1. Yes. I will "ditto" what others here have said - particularly if you drink a glass or two of a good red wine each day. Also, occasionally if I have been tense for a long time, if I have a drink with dinner (or with TV), I can feel my muscles unclench a bit. A massage would be more effective, but....

2. Yes, certainly. I think a lot of the problems we have is the culture of drinking in general in the US. On one side of my family, I am a second-generation American. My older relatives, who are immigrants or first-generation, have very different attitudes towards drinking. No-one drinks "to get drunk" - they are generally perceived to be fools. But drinking is not taboo, either - I got to try sips of wine and beer when I was a kid, when the adults were drinking and if I was interested, and that removed a lot of the "mystery" from drinking.

3. Well, if you mean drinking by having a glass or two of wine, or a rum and coke, then no. If you mean getting falling-down drunk often, then I think yes - because it affects your sleep schedule, your body processes, and so forth.

4. I would try to confront them. Although I hate confrontation. But I would try to do it.

5. I was told that going out for a beer after practice is a good thing, because you wake up less sore the next day.