Patterns with high kicks that students can't do

[Acronym]

Yep, and all the other stuff I said along with that.

Which again had nothing to do with it

 

[Acronym]

Firstly, that's not curriculum, that's testing standards.

Curriculum:

the subjects comprising a course of study in a school or college.

One such thing is to deliver a high kick.

 

[andyjeffries]

I personally would not allow the person to be graded unless he or she can reach jaw level, since that is what the pattern states and ones own jaw level does not take unreasonable flexibility.

Out of interest, what rank do you hold? And what rank does your current organisation require for you to promote others?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Curriculum:

the subjects comprising a course of study in a school or college.

One such thing is to deliver a high kick.

The curriculum is the course of study, not the test. There are many things in my curriculum, for example, that I don’t test.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I talked to a 4th dan who took the first approach but to me this negates the hole point of personal development in martial arts. You are suposed to push yourself past what you used to be able to do!

IMO the job as an instructor is to help students attain levels past what they thought was possible. But, by the same token not try to push past what is realistically possible. My Instructor who is head of the organization would say that he promoted thousands of people to BB. Perhaps 10 could do every kick well, and perhaps 5 of those could do every kick well with both legs. I met a guy years ago -born without arms. He modified pattern hand techniques to use his legs. He still reached BB level and beyond. Point being that the "Standards" for rank can very due to circumstances.

 

[Acronym]

IMO the job as an instructor is to help students attain levels past what they thought was possible. But, by the same token not try to push past what is realistically possible. My Instructor who is head of the organization would say that he promoted thousands of people to BB. Perhaps 10 could do every kick well, and perhaps 5 of those could do every kick well with both legs. I met a guy years ago -born without arms. He modified pattern hand techniques to use his legs. He still reached BB level and beyond. Point being that the "Standards" for rank can very due to circumstances.

Is Charles E Sereff your instructor?

 

[Acronym]

Out of interest, what rank do you hold? And what rank does your current organisation require for you to promote others?

I'm a red belt. The required rank is 4th Dan.

 

[dvcochran]

Curriculum:

the subjects comprising a course of study in a school or college.

One such thing is to deliver a high kick.

No, saying "high kick" is a very generic term. What kick? What leg? What stance? Which leg? etc...
Not at all the same as a curriculum.

 

[Acronym]

No, saying "high kick" is a very generic term. What kick? What leg? What stance? Which leg? etc...
Not at all the same as a curriculum.

Pattern Wha Rang dictates a high kick turning kick from both legs.

 

[dvcochran]

I do not understand the initial comment >>>>Are you saying you do not take into consideration the motion(s) After leg extension? << As an aside the kicks are to be done with good balance in patterns and when I first learned how strict this was in the the kick is to be retracted, balance maintained an then step down I thought it as a lot of wasted time and motion but later considered it a good training tool so people did not "Fall Into": the stance following the kick. Hope than makes sense.

We are on the same page I think. I would say I find it more paramount in active sparring in many ways. Not as precise but very, very important in being able to continue the sparring pattern.
When you judge forms competition you look at the metrics you mention and more. But certainly, there is a difference in form vs. sparring. That is where some people get lost in the translation between the two.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Is Charles E Sereff your instructor?

Sr. GM Sereff is my instructor.

 

[Acronym]

Sr. GM Sereff is my instructor.

Approximately how many members/schools does the United States Taekwondo Federation have? ITF seems to be very small in the US, so the USTF can't be very big?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Approximately how many members/schools does the United States Taekwondo Federation have? ITF seems to be very small in the US, so the USTF can't be very big?

Which is relevant in what way?

 

[granfire]

there are other things in forms more challenging than the hight of a kick.
the ITA Choong Moo had a 360 jump in it. Surprisingly tough to master.
Due to age and pre-existing conditions a friend of mine could never do a high chambered kick, Belt level was a good day for her
a crescent kick to the head tho, no problem! and that could throw you for a loop: The old gall can't kick that high....WHAMO.
She was a pretty good puncher though (and hell with a short stick. I am glad we only ever trained with the rubber ones!)

Punch levels? Sure. High (head) middle (solar plexus) and low (lower than that, but not below the belt :wink wink
Kicks? not everybody can kick to the head.
And in the immortal paraphrased words of Bruce Lee 'Why?'
why spend time on working on a mediocre technique at best, when you can perfect a good one!
some folks just do not have the flexibility.
Or the range!

But you can always kick somebody in the head after you brought them down with a different technique. Kick the legs out from under them first, or kick them in the gut.
Plus their defenses won't be as strong.
I used to be able to reach somebody in the nose.
Now I would be happy to get above the belt.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Approximately how many members/schools does the United States Taekwondo Federation have? ITF seems to be very small in the US, so the USTF can't be very big?

The USTF has no affiliation with the any ITF so the relevant size of each has nothing to do with the other. If I recall correctly you are affiliated with the NK ITF so it should come as no surprise there are few people from the USA affiliated with that organization. (Not withstanding the highest ranking person affiliated with that group is in the USA.) I really have no idea how many USTF or ITF schools / members there are in the USA. I do know that each of the 3 main ITF factions have members in the USA, . The last ITF event I was at was an IIC in Colorado in 2010.

 

[Acronym]

The USTF has no affiliation with the any ITF so the relevant size of each has nothing to do with the other. If I recall correctly you are affiliated with the NK ITF so it should come as no surprise there are few people from the USA affiliated with that organization. (Not withstanding the highest ranking person affiliated with that group is in the USA.) I really have no idea how many USTF or ITF schools / members there are in the USA. I do know that each of the 3 main ITF factions have members in the USA, . The last ITF event I was at was an IIC in Colorado in 2010.

But it is the same style. You use Chang Hon forms and similar curriculum as the ITF(s)? And sparring?

When I joined my school 6 years ago, I asked a Karateka online in the US if he has been to any ITF dojang and there were zero of them in his state.....Otherwise he would want to try it out, he said.

 

[Earl Weiss]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
the ITA Choong Moo had a 360 jump in it. ..........................

Since you us e the past tense "Had" does that mean this organization changed it? Or am I over thinking things.

 

[Earl Weiss]

But it is the same style. You use Chang Hon forms and similar curriculum as the ITF(s)? And sparring?

When I joined my school 6 years ago, I asked a Karateka online in the US if he has been to any ITF dojang and there were zero of them in his state.....Otherwise he would want to try it out, he said.

USTF has maintained the same curriculum it had before the ITF disintegrated and the USTF separated itself from the successor organizations using the ITF moniker from any formal standpoint.

As far as what any Karateka said about ITF schools in his state it is certainly possible it is also possibly inaccurate. . Some states are sparsely populated, and there may be few if any that formally associate within the state, yet there may be schools that have maintained the same curriculum they had before the ITF imploded and or even after the ITF imploded but the heads of the schools decided to leave the successor organizations..

 

[Acronym]

USTF has maintained the same curriculum it had before the ITF disintegrated and the USTF separated itself from the successor organizations using the ITF moniker from any formal standpoint.

As far as what any Karateka said about ITF schools in his state it is certainly possible it is also possibly inaccurate. . Some states are sparsely populated, and there may be few if any that formally associate within the state, yet there may be schools that have maintained the same curriculum they had before the ITF imploded and or even after the ITF imploded but the heads of the schools decided to leave the successor organizations..

ITF footage tends to be European. Per capita, the US must be one of the least ITF populated places in the world.
In fact, I'm fairly confident that ITF-offshoots labelled "Traditional TaeKwonDo" far outnumber ITF and a lot of these places don't even have have contact sparring.

 

[Acronym]

If this clip below is an emphasis in USTF schools, then I would say it does not adhere to the ITF curriculum.

None of these jumping variations are used in ITF sparring or basics training.

Jumping lead leg hook kick, Jumping pick shape kick, none of this is drilled in ITF.