Parkour and Ninjutsu

[Supra Vijai]

Ninjitsu is the "original" free-running style you could say. The training nowadays just doesn't focus on those techniques as much.

That's pretty cool but there's just one tiny little problem. I know the OP, he's from the same organisation as I am and we don't train NinjItsu. We train NinjUtsu. Whole different ball game.

Off topic somewhat but have you ever seen the Simpsons episode when Marge becomes a Cop? They are running around the obstacle course and she struggles to climb the wall when the guy recruits just use the door. Think about it.

 

[Supra Vijai]

Alright my last post sounded like I was hatin on Parkour. Not so, one of my best mates who incidentally also trains Ninjutsu with us has just started Parkour. Not my thing but he enjoys it so all power to him. However the first thing he said after his intro to the class was "Holy S&#t that's way different to ninja! I've got to remember to not pull any of that crap in class lol" Parkour is great at what it is but it's not Ninjutsu. At all.

 

[Chris Parker]

Ninjitsu is the "original" free-running style you could say. The training nowadays just doesn't focus on those techniques as much.

Hmm, yeah, you could say that. Of course, you would be wrong, though.

Free-running and parkour are rather removed from the ideas, concepts, movement, and ideals on Ninjutsu in a number of ways, really, both modern practice and historical usage. The problem comes when people think of popular imagery as being historically based (running, jumping, leaping over things, etc). There are traditional running methods, but they are very removed. There are traditional methods of climbing walls, but they are very far removed. There are ways of scaling buildings both up and down, but they are very far removed.

In the early 80's, Steve Hayes held a Shadows of Iga Festival in the US (one of the first), and sponsored Hatsumi Sensei to come out for it (to teach and observe). There are a number of stories about that time, but the relevant one here is when Hayes had his students demonstrate a method of moving down a cliff/outside a wall, which Hayes had consulted the SWAT forces for how to exactly do it. Hatsumi watched, and told everyone that it was very well done.... then pulled Hayes aside, and explained that the method chosen was rather easy to spot for anyone from the ground, and would have resulted in a simple capture and probable death. Hayes was shattered... he had figured that as he had gotten it from the SWAT team, it must be effective and safe! The problem is, of course, that the SWAT team are part of the police force, and seen as the "good guys", so being spotted isn't such an issue (they're allowed to be there, they're acting in the public good). A Ninja, on the other hand, doesn't have that luxury if attempting to enter somewhere they shouldn't be....

Superficial similarities don't quite cut it, unfortunately. This is why whenever anyone tries to say that Spec Ops, SEALS, CIA etc are "modern Ninja", the responce is usually an immediate "NO THEY'RE NOT!"

 

[ElfTengu]

Yeah, I heard about the mystical method of climbing a wall (using a rope) with your back to the wall so that you can see what's going on around you.

No one should really comment until they have tried it though.

*Hint* about as feasible as a narrow gauge bamboo breathing tube underwater.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Yeah, I heard about the mystical method of climbing a wall (using a rope) with your back to the wall so that you can see what's going on around you.

No one should really comment until they have tried it though.

*Hint* about as feasible as a narrow gauge bamboo breathing tube underwater.

One of the things Fujita Seiko mentions in his writing was that the first thing he had to learn was to control his breathing so that it was slow and steady, no matter how much he had to exert himself. He trianed this by placing a piece of rice paper in front of his nose, held there by nothing but a bit of spit. If it flew away, he was breathing too hard.

The reasons were several. For one, if you've just climbed a wall and hid yourself inside a castle, it would not do if the people inside heard you breathing loudly. Especially at night when all was supposed to be quiet. Another reason was that it is supposedly hard to suck large volumes of air through a narrow piece of bamboo.

 

[ElfTengu]

One of the things Fujita Seiko mentions in his writing was that the first thing he had to learn was to control his breathing so that it was slow and steady, no matter how much he had to exert himself. He trianed this by placing a piece of rice paper in front of his nose, held there by nothing but a bit of spit. If it flew away, he was breathing too hard.

The reasons were several. For one, if you've just climbed a wall and hid yourself inside a castle, it would not do if the people inside heard you breathing loudly. Especially at night when all was supposed to be quiet. Another reason was that it is supposedly hard to suck large volumes of air through a narrow piece of bamboo.

This is fine as long as you are doing your hiding before you have an exhaustive fight/climb/swim/run etc and are not panting with adrenaline/exertion.

I snore when I am not even completely asleep so I'm not the best person to ask about silent breathing. And when I have led a group of inductees at work up ten flights of stairs to the training/conference facility, I often have trouble breathing at all, let alone silently (and let alone ready to commence a morning of presentations), and this is as much down to nerves as lack of fitness, and these people are not even trying to kill me, they are just trying to get through their first day's 'work' with a new employer, and are probably more nervous than me!

There is a technique for raising the shoulders so that your ribcage doesn't expand and contract quite so obviously, but I don't think there is a technique for stopping people noticing that your shoulders are hunched in a peculiar manner.

As usually there is a lot of theorising on this subject, and whilst I don't doubt that Soke and/or some of the (perhaps younger) shihanke have all the expertise of ninja movement, including climbing, down to a tee, I don't think a group of aging Japanese gentlemen would have an awful lot to offer as far as traversing urban environs at high speed is concerned, compared with a modern free runner or Parkouriste.

But then I wouldn't ask a free runner to help me with my Shinden Fudo ryu!

 

[Chris Parker]

Absolutely.

For the record, breathing through a narrow bamboo tube is not that easy, when starting you begin with a larger diameter tube. Basically, the longer and thinner the tube, the harder it is to breathe through, and the better conditioned your lungs need to be. It comes down to pressure (of the water), as well as the lowered amount of air you can recieve. I do know of one instructor who trained such things till he was able to breathe through a paper straw (less than 1 cm diameter) while immersed underwater. Not easy....

 

[Archangel M]

Eh. I question the validity of anybody who opines on things "tactical" when the odds are slim that they ever applied said techniques in a "real world" scenario. Its easy to be an expert based on theory..scrolls...what my master said...etc.

YMMV.