Optional Clothing Training?

[bekkilyn]

Heh, I also read this one as in clothing being optional, perhaps like practicing what you would do if someone attacked you in the shower.

 

[still learning]

Hello, A story we read: After a hard training class in Judo...the Sensi told the Black belts and brown belts to take of the top part of the Gi..

He had the brown belts face the Black belts....guess what....many of the brown belts were able to counter the throws of black belts...because they were use to grabbing the sleeves and tops!

Lesson...training with Gi's is NOT the same as with street clothes and t-shirts...!

If you do not train with street clothes...pants will rip for long street pants too!

Aloha,






























1

 

[Steve]

Kind of along the lines of gi and no-gi. In gi training in BJJ, grips are a part of the training. The gi is a weapon as much as anything else. In no-gi, however, grabbing clothes is against the rules. The idea is that you have no grips. Completely different environment. I don't train no-gi as often as I should, but both are important.

I'd presume that doing something similar in a self defense training situation would be a good thing!

 

[Ty Hatfield]

"The idea is that you have no grips." Completely different environment. I don't train no-gi as often as I should, but both are important.

I'd presume that doing something similar in a self defense training situation would be a good thing!

I think it is very important to train doing similar stuff in self defense for sure. I have to say about Handles and grips there is grips in no gi ju-jitsu it is just not exactly the same. It is the joints that are grips any place the bones come together is a joint and a grip.

 

[frank raud]

Wow, that never would have dawned on me. Could you elaborate? Not to the point of challenging one's dinner of course, but ... I'd love to explore this. For years I've been scanning public restrooms when I go in, and I always wished there was more I could do beyond that for safety. Cool to know that there is.

While you are at the urinal, a common tactic is for the bad guy to bang your head against the tile wall, then grab your wallet. Rest one arm on the wall, as if you are drunk and need to hold on, with your forearm at head level. Doesn't appear too unusual to a casual onlooker, but will help you avoid getting your head slammed, and makes it easier to rotate to defend yourself, as you having a bit more room to manouevre, as well as the strength in your arm to push off.

We have practiced being attacked when exiting bathroom stalls, thought provoking scenario, for sure.

 

[Steve]

I think it is very important to train doing similar stuff in self defense for sure. I have to say about Handles and grips there is grips in no gi ju-jitsu it is just not exactly the same. It is the joints that are grips any place the bones come together is a joint and a grip.

Good point. By no grips, I mean, you can't grab fabric, and often, because sweat is a real factor, grabbing anything is questionable.

 

[Ty Hatfield]

Good point. By no grips, I mean, you can't grab fabric, and often, because sweat is a real factor, grabbing anything is questionable.

Steve,

I understand I train alot in BJJ still in gi and no gi my partner is Ricky Lundell.

 

[Live True]

Just tossing this weird topic out for chewing on.

I can't resist...this was really...ahemm....a poor choice of words for the topic....:lfao:

 

[Live True]

Good point. By no grips, I mean, you can't grab fabric, and often, because sweat is a real factor, grabbing anything is questionable.

As a more serious answer to this interesting thread...I recently went from training in a gi in a temp controlled gym...to training in sweat clothers or street clothes outside. Needless to say, at this time of year, it is muggy and weather can be interesting (we're supposed to have rain today, but the plan is to train).

Besides the interesting adjustments necessary to uneven terrain.....Early on I discovered that I get VERY slick with sweat by about 1/2way through training (is this what it feels like to be slimed?!?!). It puts a whole new spin on any attempts to grab, throw, or any other type of contact. I can only imagine oiling up would make this even more pronounced. You can't depend on your grip and have to depend more on full body contact...at least, that is my current solution...I'm sure there are more elegant and effective ones for those more experienced...but it's definately been an interesting learning experience! I highly recommend it!

Just drink LOTS of water! :uhyeah:

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I've been enjoying the humor of this thread, but in reality, there is a form of mugging that takes place in public restrooms, and a couple forms of theft.

The most common is theft of purses and laptop computers from stalls. Basically, people put their computer bags down on the floor in front of them, and the thief just reaches under and grabs it and walks briskly away. You won't be chasing them for at least a couple seconds. The second is purses draped over the handy hook on the back of the stall door. This one is very common. A woman (or a man in drag) reaches over the top, grabs the bag that they know will most likely be there, and again walks off at a brisk pace.

The solution in both cases is to keep your bag or purse next to you, and if possible, step through the shoulder strap so it is secured to your leg.

The mugging I spoke of applies to men at urinals. The mugger comes up from behind the victim and forces him directly into the urinal and leans in with his body weight. The victim is pressed into the urinal and often has both hands in front of him and is looking down. The mugger then extracts the victim's wallet and flees. The victim is disoriented, off-balance, wet, and still, shall we say, exposed. Unlikely to give immediate chase.

The solution is to practice the 'spin' when hit from behind while urinating. One has to train themselves to avoid reacting instinctively to cover their groin when their tackle is out, but to instead elbow straight back, pivot, block or parry and strike the assailant. Expect to be hit and practice thinking about what you'll do when it happens.

Public bathrooms can be dangerous places, and many criminals understand only too well that many people have a natural aversion to paying close attention to anyone else in a bathroom, to avoid making eye contact, and to 'make themselves decent' before giving chase or raising an alarm when a crime is committed. One must abandon any pretense of modesty - you'd run out of your house naked if the house were on fire, wouldn't you? Same thing here.

Refer to the bathroom scene in Wild Geese 2 with Scott Glenn, hook kicking the knife weilder wh is about to stab him at the urinal. =)

I have had a couple knock out drag outs in bathrooms before, a nasty enviroment but one full of improvissed weapons.

On the OP's point, every class we do involves getting rid of the Gi top for at least a 1/4 of class, so you train with someone whos closthes can be used against him (and you) and someone whos cant.

I think it's a good idea to go outside and train as well, uneven ground, mud, snow, ice, trees, cars, curbs ect can all be a factor.

 

[Jimi]

Back in 1983 my first Instructor insisted on us training in street clothes for the differing clothing conditions from training in a uniform. My class mate and I usually trained at high school as well as other times thru out the day. We were typically dressed as the casual athlete in sweat pants T-shirt/sweat shirt and sneakers, clothes condusive to both athletic endeavers and self defense. When my Instructor was expecting us to dress in jeans and other restrictive clothing and not be dressed for more activity, his plan to disclose how in the mid 70's at school he was wearing tight bell bottom jeans and got in an altercation trying to use a spin hook kick that got him pounded due to the clothing being restrictive as a lesson, he was at a loss when we were dressed in a way that still allowed us to perform athlectically. " I told you guys to dress like you would at school!!" we retorted, "This is how we dress most everyday for school" His point was clothing can affect your performance in self defense. Our point was due to our activity we had already addressed that in our lives. Needless to say he insisted on us dressing as restrictive as possible the next class as it was his intent for us to do as he willed, regardless. LOL. I do have to admitt though, that when I dress in finer clothing for weddings, funerals or special occasions, i find some clothing too tight & restrictive for my tastes, especially dress shoes with leather soles. You can clean me up, you just can't take me out. Not to mention a tie, i used to have to wear a tie at a club in DC I used to Bounce at, I hated wearing something that any fool within arms reach could pull the smart alek move of seizing me by my throat like a leash (that was my trigger to escort him from the premissis onto M street), I would always wind up doing my Rodney Dangerfield imitation throughout the night (tugging at my tie- no respect) LOL.

 

[Flea]

I'll come at this from the opposite direction. In my class we have no uniforms. Ever. People work out in jeans, in sweats, different kinds of shoes and even barefoot, and in my case sometimes an ankle-length skirt.

Granted, I'm a MA novice so I'm sure that I'm missing a lot here. But if practicing in street clothes is such a great idea ... why use uniforms at all?

 

[theletch1]

We've done street clothes training. Used to be a monthly thing until we moved to the new place. I may have to bring that back. We've also trained sitting in a chair as if on the "throne" and standing as if at a urinal. Probably the toughest thing we've done (as aikido-ka) was train one night wearing boxing gloves. You couldn't punch was the rule and you obviously couldn't grab. Really made you think long and hard about redirecting the energy that you were getting. Very much, I suspect, like trying to grab someone greased up. No use of fingers really. I my wife and I have trained here at the house on uneven terrain in our street clothes. Add my everyday steel toe boots and uneven ground (damn moles) and it really, really changes the way I have to move and think about my defense.

 

[theletch1]

I'll come at this from the opposite direction. In my class we have no uniforms. Ever. People work out in jeans, in sweats, different kinds of shoes and even barefoot, and in my case sometimes an ankle-length skirt.

Granted, I'm a MA novice so I'm sure that I'm missing a lot here. But if practicing in street clothes is such a great idea ... why use uniforms at all?

Conformity, increased discipline, stronger feeling of unity with your classmates.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I can't resist...this was really...ahemm....a poor choice of words for the topic....:lfao:

I was going to call it clothing optional training but i thought it would get the wrong idea....lol!

 

[jks9199]

I'll come at this from the opposite direction. In my class we have no uniforms. Ever. People work out in jeans, in sweats, different kinds of shoes and even barefoot, and in my case sometimes an ankle-length skirt.

Granted, I'm a MA novice so I'm sure that I'm missing a lot here. But if practicing in street clothes is such a great idea ... why use uniforms at all?

A couple of reasons. (Dave Lowry goes into this more in his book In The Dojo.)

First, a uniform is a reminder of what you're doing. My attitude and demeanor changes when I put my uniform on for work. In the same way, when I dress out for class, it's a reminder to set aside the problems and concerns of the "ordinary" world, and focus on the moment of training.

Second, uniforms provide a sense of unity within a class, and in doing so, often reflect the attitude and spirit of the class. A class where people where a traditional uniform is the norm -- you have a different attitude and spirit towards training. When the uniform is flashy and full of patches and logos and prizes -- that often reflect he attitude of the school as well.

Third, uniforms save wear and tear on your regular clothes, and sometimes, your body. There's a reason for long pants in a traditional Judo uniform's longer knees and sleeves -- and it's not just to facilitate some of the holds.

 

[Flea]

JKS and Letch, I appreciate your responses. My question probably came across as "why do surgeons wear gloves?" But I think that asking obvious questions can be very useful. Someone once told me the invention of the mouse came about when one designer asked why all commands are done via keyboard.

Besides. As a novice, I have an excuse for asking dumb questions. :wink2: I may as well milk it, right?

 

[Ronin74]

In regards to the OP, the last group I trained with never had uniforms or belts, and the only times we wore anything that seemed remotely like a uniform were if we did MA demonstrations at public events. So everyone wore regular street clothes, though it was encouraged to wear something we didn't mind getting dirty.

The resistance offered by regular clothing did make a small difference in how we moved. Those of us who came from other TMAs found training in jeans to be even more restrictive than a heavyweight gi. Now our place didn't have a proper heating system, so a few of us wore layers (I'd have two layers of sweats and baggy jeans.) An unexpected boon for that came in the form of a little extra agility when we took off the extra layers.

 

[grydth]

I've actually had to wrestle a wacked out naked man in to handcuffs.........not fun......pretty damn funny when someone else is doing it but not fun to do yourself.

In prison inmates often strip down naked and cover themselves with feces and urine to make themselves more slippery when a cell extraction team is coming in.

All of those participating in the recent threads on alleged police misconduct would do well to recognize just what police have to deal with on our behalf each day..... and there are far worse than these out there.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Shoes..is just as important to train in!

Your everyday shoes will not react as your martial art shoes. Barefoot training is different from your everyday work shoes...

Have you seen guys wear there everyday shoes in class and try some spinning kicks or straight kicks....you will see some "flobs" for sure..

Dress pants "rip" with high kicks...bring spares...

Grass reacts different for the same work shoes...cement grips more too.

You should train "completely" top to bottom..a few times in class every month...to get the true feeling of fighting in street clothes!

Aloha, ( Hawaiian shirts are allow in our classes) and rubber slippers too!

PS: Talking pigeon is OK and allow ...No kan understand?