Opening a School

[Dirty Dog]

He said hidden cameras implying not telling people they are being filmed, CCTV cameras when people know they are there aren't illegal anywhere but spying on people without them knowing is at best sleazy at worst illegal. It's all about whether people know they are being filmed.

Again, laws vary widely, but I do not think there is any law here requiring me to inform you if I choose to run a camera in my place of business.

 

[Tez3]

Again, laws vary widely, but I do not think there is any law here requiring me to inform you if I choose to run a camera in my place of business.

But as I said in my post if you do and people find out you are going to be in trouble of various sorts, people don't like being filmed secretly. They will wonder why you didn't tell them ( if you give the reason as being afraid of them falsely accusing you to sexual assault they will not be impressed will they?) they will also think you don't trust your students and they will also wonder what the 'real' reason is, people's imaginations can be fertile. Secret hidden cameras show a bad intent to people, it will come out sooner or later. Put them up and tell people, make the cameras overt, it prevents a lot of problems.

 

[Balrog]

I am looking into opening a school were I live. Any recommendations or warnings concerning the process?

Plan, plan, plan and plan some more. Before you start looking for floor space, you should have a business plan that includes a minimum of one year's pro forma P&Ls. If you don't know what those are, take a quick, basic course in accounting fundamentals.

Make your plan as realistic as you can and when you think you are done, go back and increase your expenses by 20% and reduce your income by 20%. That will actually be a heck of a lot more realistic. Don't forget to include a salary for yourself and make that realistic.

Here's a good starting point. Also plug in your zip code and find the nearest SCORE folks to you. Go learn at their knee. SCORE is a tremendous resource for you as a new business owner.

And be prepared to not sleep well for quite a while. Good luck!

 

[PhotonGuy]

You put hidden cameras in and people find out you will be off to court quite quickly... on criminal charges. I also think you may want to take your mind out of the gutter.

What is it with people thinking about weird sexual stuff on MT at the moment?

Its not illegal to put cameras in certain areas including an area thats used for training in the martial arts. Stores and businesses have hidden cameras all the time. What can be illegal is to use audio recorders but if its just cameras that shouldn't be a problem.

And people have sued for sexual harassment even when it hasn't happened. Here in the USA sexual harassment is taken very seriously as it should be but also in the USA everybody sues everybody else for just about anything. The USA has about as many lawyers as Japan has engineers.

 

[PhotonGuy]

He said hidden cameras implying not telling people they are being filmed, CCTV cameras when people know they are there aren't illegal anywhere but spying on people without them knowing is at best sleazy at worst illegal.

Its not spying its called having security.

It's all about whether people know they are being filmed.

I don't know how it is in your country but in the USA hidden cameras are all over the place in businesses and in public places. If you don't like hidden cameras I would stay out of casinos, they have tons of hidden cameras. And there are no laws that say you can't have hidden cameras in businesses that the public comes in and out of. In some states the law says that you can't record conversations without a person's consent but having hidden cameras that are only visual and don't pick up sound aren't a problem. While Im not sure about having hidden cameras in bathrooms or locker rooms and I wouldn't install them in such places, there is nothing wrong with having hidden cameras in the main training area, its no different than having hidden cameras in the main room in a store where the customers go to browse and make purchases. I used to work in security so I know some of the regulations when it comes to surveillance devices.

 

[Buka]

And why is that? From what I heard and from my own experiences you learn the most from teaching. Sure, there are the hassles and hardships that come with running a school that come with running just about any business but why would loving to train make it harder?

When you're running a dojo you are specifically teaching what the students in any given class need. Not, in any way, shape or form, what YOU need.
And like Dirty Dog said, teaching is a tiring process. It drains some of that energy that you have now, or think you have now. When you run a school, you wear many hats. You are always a surrogate something.

When you are just a student, you charge into the dojo, train your balls off, do a couple of high fives on the way out, go about your business and get some sleep before work the next day. When you run a dojo, you're already at work. People are experiencing (if you're doing to right) some of the best times of their life. You, you're just working.

 

[PhotonGuy]

They will wonder why you didn't tell them ( if you give the reason as being afraid of them falsely accusing you to sexual assault they will not be impressed will they?) they will also think you don't trust your students and they will also wonder what the 'real' reason is, people's imaginations can be fertile.

The reason I would give for having cameras and not telling people about them is general security.

 

[Tez3]

The reason I would give for having cameras and not telling people about them is general security.

If you have cameras you haven't told people about then be prepared to lose your students when they do find out. Say what you will, no one likes people secretly spying on them, telling people there are cameras actually has a preventative effect.

 

[WaterGal]

Make your plan as realistic as you can and when you think you are done, go back and increase your expenses by 20% and reduce your income by 20%. That will actually be a heck of a lot more realistic. Don't forget to include a salary for yourself and make that realistic.

OMG yes. Everything you do will cost more, take longer, and be more work than you expect.

 

[mograph]

The reason I would give for having cameras and not telling people about them is general security.

If the students are likely to be photographed by cameras in the teaching or public spaces, I'd tell the students about the cameras. However, I wouldn't feel the need to tell them about cameras in private spaces (e.g. my office, if it were out-of-bounds to students), or at a back entrance not used by students.

If we don't tell the students that they might be caught on camera, I think we'd be placing ourselves a little farther away from the students in our relationship, essentially turning the students into strangers. Some may see it as a violation of trust.
Of course it all depends on the desired atmosphere of the club.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If the students are likely to be photographed by cameras in the teaching or public spaces, I'd tell the students about the cameras. However, I wouldn't feel the need to tell them about cameras in private spaces (e.g. my office, if it were out-of-bounds to students), or at a back entrance not used by students.

I've never mentioned the cameras to a single student or parent. Not even once.
Now, they're not really concealed, but they're the "bubble" type cameras, sort of like this

mounted on the really high ceiling, so they're not at all obvious.
Now, since we're YMCA-based, we have no control over the cameras anyway, but they've never been brought up as a problem by anybody. I doubt that the vast majority of the students and spectators are even aware that they're on camera.

 

[Tez3]

I didn't say they were a 'problem' I said people don't like being spied on 'in secret', most people these days are used to cctv because they know about it however a small gym/dojo owner using concealed cameras is not playing the game. A big sign saying you have cctv (even if you don't) is good crime prevention.
The cameras in your YMCA aren't concealed, not obvious certainly but not secret.

 

[mograph]

Now, they're not really concealed, but they're the "bubble" type cameras, sort of like this
... mounted on the really high ceiling, so they're not at all obvious.

Well, that's cool, because they're visible. You're right, and I correct my reply: if the cameras were hidden, I'd tell the students. I suppose it also depends on how "public" the place is: a YMCA is more public than one's own dojo, I suppose.

 

[Flying Crane]

I would advise against putting cameras of any sort in the restrooms, changing areas and showers. But that should go without sayin. It should, but doesn't always. Which is why I said it.