old MA mag article?

[wckf92]

Does anyone have the full article (with the photos) on 'secrets of wing chun leg maneuvers' by a Curt James?
I keep finding it online but I think it had photos/pictures in it originally?

I.E. here is an example: Secret Wing Chun Leg Maneuvers

Does anyone have it (with the photo's) they'd be willing to share? Thx Gents!

 

[wingchun100]

That looks awesome. I hope someone can find it. If not...did you try doing a search according to certain terms mentioned in the article? You might not get the pictures that went with this piece itself, but they might suffice. Personally I am interested in searching for "Eight Kicks (Wing Chun Bot Gerk), Eight Leg Principles (Bot Gerk Faat), and Twelve Blocking Legs (Sup Yee Dong Gerk)."

 

[geezer]

Interesting. Was Curt James a student of Augustine Fong in Tucson Arizona back in the late 70s and 80s? Joy would know. The name sounds familiar.

 

[Dong xiao hu]

I will check my collection. I might have that one

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[wckf92]

I will check my collection. I might have that one

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Thank you sir!!!

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[KPM]

Interesting. Was Curt James a student of Augustine Fong in Tucson Arizona back in the late 70s and 80s? Joy would know. The name sounds familiar.

Yes he was. I met him once. Pretty intense guy. Had his own school in Tucson for awhile. Everything in that article would be from Augustine Fong's curriculum.

 

[Vajramusti]

Interesting. Was Curt James a student of Augustine Fong in Tucson Arizona back in the late 70s and 80s? Joy would know. The name sounds familiar.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes. Curtis's materials are basically Fong materials.Curtis and Fong sifu parted ways.

 

[Dong xiao hu]

I have checked my collection and I seem to not have that issue from 91 sorry.

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[wckf92]

I have checked my collection and I seem to not have that issue from 91 sorry.

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No problem bro...appreciate you checking!

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[Treznor]

It's not much... but it's a start

 

[wckf92]

It's not much... but it's a start
Awesome thx!

 

[wckf92]

It's not much... but it's a start

Awesome thx!

 

[CMyers0323]

Found this even if its been some time I'm sure it'd useful if someone still checks here

 

[Oily Dragon]

Found this even if its been some time I'm sure it'd useful if someone still checks here
View attachment 28035

Invisible kicks are the quintessential Crane technique.

No shadow!

 

[CMyers0323]

Invisible kicks are the quintessential Crane technique.

No shadow!

That's awesome! By any chance do you know where I can find more info on these kicks in Wing Chun? It seems to be a dead end

 

[Oily Dragon]

That's awesome! By any chance do you know where I can find more info on these kicks in Wing Chun? It seems to be a dead end

I'll try to pull up some pics but basically southern Crane technique kicks use hand feints along with short range gut busting teeps. One of those, the "Shadowless" kick, became infamous in Hong Kong cinema for a hundred years.

Similar technique made famous in Karate Kid 1 for working, and not working in Karate Kid 2 against Chosen. When Miyagi says "ask drum", I respond "Crane!". Same animal, different technique.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Spent some time referencing my Wing Chun history books. One helpful reference for Wing Chun Crane kicking techniques that don't happen to pop up in Wing Chun's short fist sets are the broader southern Tiger-Crane combo methods, since they share a lot of Crane and Dragon material with Wing Chun (and, the most critical modern proponents of both Tiger Crane and Wing Chun happened to both open up medical shops in Foshan...).

https://northcountykungfu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Fu-Hok.jpg

Basically, the kicks that are "missing" in Wing Chun aren't missing, they're just not transmitted through a lot of modern lineages. The 8 listed in the article above are probably a subset of a larger group practiced in the south. Basic kicks of all different types (or as I like the call them, the "gerk squad") should be part of any kung fu kicking drill list (I have a list like this somewhere with maybe 12 different kicks, which I think include all 8 listed in that old newspaper article based on the description).

The kick on the top left is the famous "Shadowless kick", the Mu Ying Gerk. the two below it are southern White Crane, actual kicks aren't shown, just the setup. The one on the bottom right is the source of the Okinawan Tang-Te Crane kick.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Side note.

This is probably another example of how fist sets aren't enough to convey the full breadth of an art. For some reason fist sets last for eons, but lists of useful drills get buried and thrown away. Whether or not a Wing Chun student is ever exposed to the complexities of kicking depends entirely on their instructor's pedigree, and how much they were shown and practiced with kicking the crap out of the wooden man over and over.

One of the best modern and skilled Wing Chun arists is Jackie Chan, he does some good Wing Chun kicks on the dummy in Rumble in the Bronx, and in older classics, but you get the idea. Short range nut buster kicks (which work very well in competition by the way).

 

[CMyers0323]

I'll try to pull up some pics but basically southern Crane technique kicks use hand feints along with short range gut busting teeps. One of those, the "Shadowless" kick, became infamous in Hong Kong cinema for a hundred years.

Similar technique made famous in Karate Kid 1 for working, and not working in Karate Kid 2 against Chosen. When Miyagi says "ask drum", I respond "Crane!". Same animal, different technique.

I think I've heard of the shadowless kicks and them being a straight line/Lifting kick rather than bend the knee and snap the leg type. Is that the same concept here? That's honestly really cool how it's been around for so long and hidden in cinema also!

Spent some time referencing my Wing Chun history books. One helpful reference for Wing Chun Crane kicking techniques that don't happen to pop up in Wing Chun's short fist sets are the broader southern Tiger-Crane combo methods, since they share a lot of Crane and Dragon material with Wing Chun (and, the most critical modern proponents of both Tiger Crane and Wing Chun happened to both open up medical shops in Foshan...).

https://northcountykungfu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Fu-Hok.jpg

Basically, the kicks that are "missing" in Wing Chun aren't missing, they're just not transmitted through a lot of modern lineages. The 8 listed in the article above are probably a subset of a larger group practiced in the south. Basic kicks of all different types (or as I like the call them, the "gerk squad") should be part of any kung fu kicking drill list (I have a list like this somewhere with maybe 12 different kicks, which I think include all 8 listed in that old newspaper article based on the description).

The kick on the top left is the famous "Shadowless kick", the Mu Ying Gerk. the two below it are southern White Crane, actual kicks aren't shown, just the setup. The one on the bottom right is the source of the Okinawan Tang-Te Crane kick.

View attachment 28040
View attachment 28041

Oh this is Interesting! I've seen this before but haven't had the time to go through it and such. That would make sense I know Wing Chun tends to not use alot of flashy kicks. The basic ones but maybe a small twist on it. I guess the slant kick is a good example of that. Haha that's a great name! Yeah I totally agree it's probably found in other sets. I just wasn't sure since atleast the names are different so it's hard to assume what exactly is unique about the kicks. I think I have a few of them figured out since the principals probably line up with the order of the kicks atleast. Oh wow thats cool! Would you mind sharing it? I'm sure it would be a great help not just for me but anyone looking for these kicks. Even if they are basic it would be good for others to understand that also. Yeah that shadowless kick looks similar to what I've seen/been taught in just lifting directly to the target no snapping. I did see in chow gar they do that but at the last second before impact do a snap so I suppose it's a little like fa jing. Yeah these are great pictures I definitely appreciate the time you've taken to help me out.

Side note.

This is probably another example of how fist sets aren't enough to convey the full breadth of an art. For some reason fist sets last for eons, but lists of useful drills get buried and thrown away. Whether or not a Wing Chun student is ever exposed to the complexities of kicking depends entirely on their instructor's pedigree, and how much they were shown and practiced with kicking the crap out of the wooden man over and over.

One of the best modern and skilled Wing Chun arists is Jackie Chan, he does some good Wing Chun kicks on the dummy in Rumble in the Bronx, and in older classics, but you get the idea. Short range nut buster kicks (which work very well in competition by the way).

Yeah I can agree. If I remember right Bruce Lee said himself you have to use the whole body. It's sad that alot of the stuff gets lost in time. Fortunately I've had experience in various arts so I got exposed to a good amount of kicking but I was always told that Wing Chun didn't have many kicks. I'm glad I found this cause I always felt something was wrong with that concept. Ah yes! This is a great scene! Yeah I can see why they work well. I enjoy a mix of close and long range kicks. I really don't do the flashy ones but I've enjoy them all

 

[Oily Dragon]

I think I've heard of the shadowless kicks and them being a straight line/Lifting kick rather than bend the knee and snap the leg type. Is that the same concept here? That's honestly really cool how it's been around for so long and hidden in cinema also!

In the canonical Wong Fei Hung lineage, the shadowless kick (from the rabid dog street legend) is like you said, but it's also not just a kick, it's a smash between fist and foot.

I forgot to point out that this image should be viewed right to left, the Crescent Moon Hand and Foot is the setup to the kick (and it's taught straight like you said, like a shovel kick, in the Tiger Crane Paired Fist but very important to consider: pretty much any type of front kick works just as well. Drill 8-12 different front types, push heel, instep, whatever, and there's no reason you can't substitute them. The actual important part is left arm, raised in the right image as the feint that smashes down on the head, while the right leg kicks.

Oh this is Interesting! I've seen this before but haven't had the time to go through it and such. That would make sense I know Wing Chun tends to not use alot of flashy kicks. The basic ones but maybe a small twist on it. I guess the slant kick is a good example of that. Haha that's a great name! Yeah I totally agree it's probably found in other sets. I just wasn't sure since atleast the names are different so it's hard to assume what exactly is unique about the kicks. I think I have a few of them figured out since the principals probably line up with the order of the kicks atleast. Oh wow thats cool! Would you mind sharing it? I'm sure it would be a great help not just for me but anyone looking for these kicks. Even if they are basic it would be good for others to understand that also. Yeah that shadowless kick looks similar to what I've seen/been taught in just lifting directly to the target no snapping. I did see in chow gar they do that but at the last second before impact do a snap so I suppose it's a little like fa jing. Yeah these are great pictures I definitely appreciate the time you've taken to help me out.

Any time. Here's another "fancy" kick setup by southern standards, pretty common right leg side kick from Crane/Dragon/Unicorn stepping transition (depending on who you ask). Again, just one image but there are a few ways I can remember to pull this off, including a teep, a heel push, and even leaping kick and flying knee version.

Yeah I can agree. If I remember right Bruce Lee said himself you have to use the whole body. It's sad that alot of the stuff gets lost in time. Fortunately I've had experience in various arts so I got exposed to a good amount of kicking but I was always told that Wing Chun didn't have many kicks. I'm glad I found this cause I always felt something was wrong with that concept. Ah yes! This is a great scene! Yeah I can see why they work well. I enjoy a mix of close and long range kicks. I really don't do the flashy ones but I've enjoy them all

It's unfortunate that so many choose to pick up Wing Chun, but stop there. If I had stopped at Hung Ga Kuen, I would never have picked up the Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist, which is probably one of the most useful techniques I've ever come across. Yet another technique image from the southern Tiger Crane that doesn't come close to describing all the different Crane technique ways the index finger can be used to dig into the opponent. If you have a little brother you you want to torture, this is all the technique you need. Also in Wing Chun somewhere, as well as Japanese art where it's called ippon ken, the "One Fist"