Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
I wonder if the Pinan actually started being created sometime in the 1890's. That would be something to find out.
Okinawan Karate
- Thread starter hogstooth
- Start date
twendkata71
Black Belt
I would imagine so. It would take a lot of time to break down the Kusanku kata and then create five separate kata from it, with the hidden applications. One thing I love about the Pinan kata, is all of the hidden nerve strikes, and vital point strikes. The kata look so basic, until you really get into the depths of the kata and study them. It is helpful if you have a copy of the Bubishi as a research guide.
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
The pinan kata are really nasty when you get into it. Like you said vital point / nerve strikes, throws, sweeps and the tuite WOW 
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Cirdan
Senior Master
Yes the Pinan are great. My instructor often tells me there is enough to study in Pinan Nidan alone to take you well beyond Dan level. One of his old teachers would take the Kata apart in his black belt class, making evry black belt feeling like a white belt again.
The creation of the Pinans are a bit of a mystery. There are rumors of parts of them having been taken from a "lost" kata named Channan as well as Kushanku. Some also says Matsumura created or at least had a hand in some of them. Who knows, perhaps all and none of these claims are true.
The creation of the Pinans are a bit of a mystery. There are rumors of parts of them having been taken from a "lost" kata named Channan as well as Kushanku. Some also says Matsumura created or at least had a hand in some of them. Who knows, perhaps all and none of these claims are true.
TimoS
Master of Arts
Here's my take on the history of the Pinan kata in regards to the "lost" kata Channan: Channan was just a "project name" for the Pinan and when they were completed, Itosu just named them to Pinan. Channan might have been considered too hard as a name, especially since it didn't (necessarily) even have a meaning (I mean the word Channan, as in the sense that Pinan (I think) means Peaceful mind, which, incidentally, suited quite fine to the school system of a nation that was, little by little, getting ready for war). It is my opinion that all the people who claim to have found the kata Channan and are now teaching it have been gullible at best or are B.S. artist at worst (also some shades of grey in-between).
chinto01
Black Belt
This is a great thread so far. It is not often that we get an Okinawan karate thread going. I say we keep it up. I have seen this tried in the past and it turns into a bash fest but I would be interested to see who we have in here and who they study with. Let's keep it civil and learn from each other. I guess I will kick it off.
My name is Rob. I have been studying Shorin ryu for 22 years now. My Sensei is Eizo Shimabukuro.
Anyone else?
In the spirit of bushido!
Rob
My name is Rob. I have been studying Shorin ryu for 22 years now. My Sensei is Eizo Shimabukuro.
Anyone else?
In the spirit of bushido!
Rob
TimoS
Master of Arts
Okay, my name, as my nick suggests, is Timo. I've been studying Seibukan here in Finland for about 2-2.5 years, of which exclusively Seibukan for about 1.5 years. Before that I was in Shorinji ryu Renshinkan and one of it's off-shoots, until I finally became convinced that what I really wanted is to learn to use the kata. I had known that for a long time already, but it took me almost 6 years to figure out that I wasn't getting what I wanted in my previous style.
twendkata71
Black Belt
Hi Rob, You have an amazing Sensei there. As you know he was the youngest Okinawan Master to be promoted to 10th Dan at age 35, on Okinawa this is unheard of. Younger Brother of Isshin ryu founder Shimabukuro Tatsuo. Both of which trained in both Shorin ryu and Goju ryu. And at the age of 83 is still in relatively great shape.
TimoS
Master of Arts
That is correct. As it happens, I heard that next August the senior sensei under him are planning a celebration in honor of his recent promotion to 10. dan, that will co-incide with the okinawan karate world games held there during that time and, naturally, I am planning on going there. This will be my first, but hopefully not the last, visit to Okinawa or Japan in general.
I've got a further question for all of you: do you study other martial arts also? Me, I started with Okinawan Jinbukan kobudo earlier this year. I had some kobudo experience in my previous style, but to tell the truth, that style was (and still is) a hodgepodge of different martial arts (e.g. escrima for sai) and although it has benefited me in learning new stuff faster, I am still an absolute beginner in it. I would also like to take a bit of BJJ, and I originally intended to start it this fall, but the club nearest to me didn't have classes that would've fitted my karate training schedule and I didn't want to go across town to other places for it, so I didn't start it
Oh well, maybe after new year....Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
I started shorin ryu in the shorinkan system under Tom Ward in Indiana but I had 8 years prior under another instructor. Since '95 I have trained under a few different instructors still using the shorin ryu methods I had learned and ultimately contributed to a split between my first instructor and I. Now I am under the watchful eye of Kyoshi Frank Williams and Hanshi Seifuku Nitta having recieved my renshi menkyo from Nitta Sensei while he was visiting the USA last year.
chinto01
Black Belt
Thanks for your kind words in regards to my Sensei. He is truly and amazing person as well as a great teacher. He has just completed another tour of the U.S. which was finished with a banquet in honor of his 60 years of teaching.
In the spirit of bushido!
Rob
chinto01
Black Belt
That is correct. As it happens, I heard that next August the senior sensei under him are planning a celebration in honor of his recent promotion to 10. dan, that will co-incide with the okinawan karate world games held there during that time and, naturally, I am planning on going there. This will be my first, but hopefully not the last, visit to Okinawa or Japan in general.
I've got a further question for all of you: do you study other martial arts also? Me, I started with Okinawan Jinbukan kobudo earlier this year. I had some kobudo experience in my previous style, but to tell the truth, that style was (and still is) a hodgepodge of different martial arts (e.g. escrima for sai) and although it has benefited me in learning new stuff faster, I am still an absolute beginner in it. I would also like to take a bit of BJJ, and I originally intended to start it this fall, but the club nearest to me didn't have classes that would've fitted my karate training schedule and I didn't want to go across town to other places for it, so I didn't start it
Timo good luck with your upcoming trip to Okinawa. Are you going with a lager group? I am also planning on going next year. Not sure when but looks like summertime. As far as training in any other styles I took tai chi for a while. Had to stop that because the instructor returned to China. As for now I am attempting BJJ. I started this on my off nights from the dojo. Lots of fun and gives me a whole new appreciation for the ground. Also makes me realize how much I want the conflict to remain on the upside of things.
In the spirit of bushido!
Rob
TimoS
Master of Arts
Well, we're trying to organize a delegation from here, but so far it looks like there are 2 (including me) that are going and 2-4 who might be going. Overall, when you consider that Seibukan has maybe less than 100 practitioners here in Finland (and many of them are students), I think that's quite ok. Could be better, of course, but two weeks in Okinawa isn't going to be cheap. I'm still fairly confident that there'll be Seibukan karateka from around the world there.
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
I was supposed to be going in August next year but the trip to the World tournament in Okinawa for me is still up in the air. Plane tickets from here are $1900 plus lodging, food, and training. Plus it would have to be a quick trip because of an association event coming up labor day weekend in DC so timing is bad also. Uggrah!!
twendkata71
Black Belt
Gees Brandon, It sounds like a deal to me if it were $3,000.00 for the whole trip. I would probably spend a lot at the Shureido store. Let alone all of the food and sightseeing. Plus training at dojo's on Okinawa. It would be a dream come true for me. You really should go. You only live once.
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
Tim,
The trip would be closer to $4200 for everything but we would only be there about 5 or 6 days vs. 13 or 14 that we originally planned. I am still going it just may be delayed a few months depending on what the group decides.
The trip would be closer to $4200 for everything but we would only be there about 5 or 6 days vs. 13 or 14 that we originally planned. I am still going it just may be delayed a few months depending on what the group decides.
chinto01
Black Belt
Brandon the $1900 is not that bad since I believe last year when I went it was about $1600. If you have the funds I would jump at the opportunity. Where are you getting your ticket info from also? If you are really interested I would begin to check into teavel agents that deal in asian travel. I use an agent in New York that deals with asian flights everyday and is great.
In the spirit of bushido!
Rob
In the spirit of bushido!
Rob
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
Rob,
This year Sensei got his tickets for $1400 when he went in March I am not sure where he got them from but it went up slightly because he didn't get a group of 10. I am still going to go though just may not be for the tournament as like yourself the training opportunities are always there and thats my big thing.
